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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: PROLIFE who wrote (18765)	7/3/1998 6:30:00 PM
From: Raymond James Norris	Read Replies (7) \| Respond to of 39621

John 1:29-34 NRSV) The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and declared, "Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! This is he of whom I said, After me comes a man who ranks ahead of me because he was before me. I myself did not know him; but I came baptizing with water for this reason, that he might be revealed to Israel." And John testified, "I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.' And I myself have seen and have testified that this is the Son of God." Thank you for proving my point that Mainline Christianity is composed more of the things that people said about Jesus (Pbuh) instead of the things that Jesus (Pbuh) said. (and you're still ignoring those contradictions!! Good for you!) (John 5:17-18 NRSV) But Jesus answered them, "My Father is still working, and I also am working." For this reason the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because he was not only breaking the sabbath, but was also calling God his own Father, thereby making himself equal to God. I always have thought these arguments were curious: That resting upon saying that Jesus (Pbuh) must be God because look at how the Jews reacted to him and look at what they thought. A more workable scenario is that the enemies of Jesus (Pbuh) misunderstood him. Time after time after time, Jesus (Pbuh) tells the Jews that they do not understand what he says. And time after time, the Jews make accusations of Jesus (Pbuh). To believe the Jews were right in their assumptions is to ignore 2 important facts. The first is that you are siding with the enemies of Jesus (Pbuh). These are the ones Jesus (Pbuh) said did not understand him. To believe they were understanding him on this one vital point goes against all reason. Why not believe the Jews misunderstood Jesus (Pbuh), that is, they were wrong in their assumptions that Jesus (Pbuh) claimed to be God. The second is that you continue to rest faith in what people thought or said about Jesus (Pbuh) instead of in the things that Jesus (Pbuh) himself said. (John 5:22-23 NRSV) The Father judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. What are you trying to prove here? Are you attempting to submit this verse as evidence that Jesus (Pbuh) is God? Let's carefully read what went BEFORE and AFTER this verse instead of attempting to take verses out of context: 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily Verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do. for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the son likewise. 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing, as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just, because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. What's made clear in the preceding verses is this: Jesus (Pbuh) on his own can do nothing. He can only do what God wills him to do (exact same belief in Islam). We have never seen God's shape nor heard God's voice. I again question why you avoid my questions concerning the contradictions. I have to assume you cannot answer them or else you would have answered them already. I do not ask much and seeing I continue to answer your posts, it seems only reasonable to answer my questions if we are to have fruitful discussion. Otherwise, you're simply making this a one sided argument, where you get to state your case over and over again, and never have to answer the "difficult" questions. Ray