Hey Guys, I found a Rat!
Did you ever wonder that, if there is nothing really bad to say about TDFX, where do folks go to get mistaken impressions enough to sink the shares?
Well, I got one. I reached in and grabbed it by the tail. Here it is. Wheeeew ... Smells too bad for me to handle. Maybe one of you wants to handle it. (Thanks to a posting on the Motley Fool, this stuff is from something called BOOT which may account for some of the smell.)
However wrong, do not underestimate what is said. Its very revealing and a great resource of the SPECIFIC Public Misconceptions we and TDFX public relations needs to anticipate and counter:
"06.22.98 12:39
3Dfx As An Investment
Hey, what's going on nowadays with you? What's this I hear about boot dying, and going to Maximum PC, did PC Gamer get pissed that boot was taking all their readers and tell Imagine to get rid of boot, or was there not enough interest in boot to continue with the current system?
If you ever want some competition in Total Annihilation shoot me an email or an ICQ, a great non-Microsoft product! It has been awhile since I've seen such a thing, (excluding games like Unreal, and TA.
Hook has to take a step back and breath for a minute and see what he is screaming about!
What's your take on an investment I have made in 3Dfx. I bought it at 17 3/8. Do you think it will hit 40 when Banshee is out?
One more thing, I don't understand how I can build a better system than someone like Dell for like hundreds less. Even with their huge-ass volume in ordering parts, which should give them a low-ball price on stuff, they don't compare with the machines I can build for the price.
When will an OEM, ship a computer that is built for the power user but built with some brains, like having a price under $3,000?
For example I paid $2,500 for this:
266MHz Pentium II ASUS LX motherboard 96MB Toshiba SDRAM 3Dfx Voodoo RIVA 128 AGP 8GB MAXTOR ULTRA DMA hard drive 32x Toshiba cd-rom 19" Optiquest Monitor 56k modem Sonic Vibes sound card
And this was like eight months ago and I have still not found a better deal in any OEM ads. Do you have any insight on this? It boggles me. With the volume OEMs have they should be able to at least some of those savings on to the user, right?
Stephen Herbert
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alex St. John Replies: The boot guys are strong at Imagine. Imagine bought another failing technology magazine with four times boot's readership and merged them. The boot guys run it all. They came out on top. I'm just learning Total Annihilation, give me some time to master it.
The Hook thread is pretty funny isn't it?
Buying those kinds of stocks is mostly gambling, I have no idea which way 3Dfx is going to go, there are plenty of good reasons for it to plummet as well. Personally, I'd have taken my profit and run, but then I tend to be a more conservative investor. I try to avoid buying stocks I can't write calls on. Calls are a very useful way of recovering money from a stock that is traveling in the wrong direction.
Yea, having volume doesn't always mean they have an efficient assembly and distribution model. Obviously a good place to shop is among the folks boot has given Kick-ass awards to. I was recently shopping for new machines, and was pretty impressed by what Micron had to offer. Take a look at their web site.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Banshee Smanshee. 3Dfx will rue the day when TNT4 comes out. Go back to 3D as your name implies. 3Dfx can't hang with the big dogs. Think about it. 3Dfx = relatively small company nVidia = very large company. I realize that shouldn't matter, but it does. If 3Dfx screws up once, it dies. It won't have the resources to go on. If Banshee doesn't go over the TNT4 (which is impressive to say the least), then it will die. Simple as that. Take the money and run.
LorDDanE
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tis true about the OEMs. But you have to remember what they are in it for. Also all the people they employ. I decided this time to go at it myself and am building a dream system for under $1,600.
300MHz Pentium II (non remark, o/c to 3.5x100), 64MB DIMM (of high quality memory), 12MB Voodoo2 card (Diamond or Orchid if I can find one from Orchid), 32X Toshiba CD-ROM, IBM Deskstar 5 6.4GB, i740 AGP Part (either Diamond or Hercules, also unsure at this moment), Cool-it 3fan cooling solution (you gotta see this), Turtle beach A3d Card, ASUS P2B (love them jumpers), and either an Aopen HX-08 full, Aopen HX-45 Mini-Mid or InWin A500ATX Mini-Mid (as seen in boot's Dream Machine), oh and don't forget Cambridge SoundWorks Speakers (in beige so it matches). boot's dream Machine would kill if they gave it to me to put together. If I did this with under $1,600 imagine if I had $5,000.
Frank Rodriguez
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3Dfx disappointed the hell out of me. It would have regained my confidence with the statement that Banshee would be the be all/end all. Now it's starting to sound a lot like the Voodoo Rush. When you take a step back in this industry you lose all the ground you made with your first. I'm purchasing a Voodoo2 because it has become in itself a platform. Yet my replacement AGP card will probably be a TNT4 based screamer, (along with my next monitor)! Rest in peace 3Dfx. You did good, but made the same mistake twice. The first time we felt sorry. The second time, well.
Frank Rodriguez
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you been reading on VoodooExtreme lately? 3Dfx released the specs on Banshee. After the smoke clears, you realize what they really said was "we're going to have some nice 2D extras but keep your V2 for best 3D." Voodoo2 is awesome and everything right now, but with that strategy, Banshee's gonna get its butt kicked by even [snicker] S3's new part.
Jim Berg
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, assembly and distribution are key. But the main costs that OEMs have that do-it-youselfers don't are support and marketing, especially support. That one-year-on-site-warranty stuff is expensive. So are telephone support operations and RMAs. I'm not sticking up for Dell. I would never buy a pre-built computer with components that somebody else picked out. But if you have to provide support for your most stupid customer, somebody has to pay for it.
Michael
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"3Dfx can't hang with the big dogs. Think about it. 3Dfx = relatively small company nVidia = very large company."
How does 125 employees equal a "very large company"?
"I realize that shouldn't matter, but it does. If 3Dfx screws up once, it dies. It won't have the resources to go on. If Banshee doesn't go over the TNT4 (which is impressive to say the least), then it will die. Simple as that. Take the money and run."
Your view of the precariousness of 3Dfx's position is a little exaggerated. What's really at issue here is 3Dfx's lack of focus. nVidia has a tight, narrow product strategy and fills a very specific market niche: people who 1) prefer a 2D/3D combo card in their boxes 2) are willing to sacrifice image quality for blazing speed.
3Dfx, on the other hand, seems to be blundering about. It is trying to expand into a market segment where they have no prior experience and are facing some killer competition (nVidia and Intel). That, plus the initially disappointing specs on Banshee (c'mon, you know you were expecting a 2D/3D with Voodoo2 performance) spells trouble for 3Dfx in the immediate future. I sincerely doubt they'll be going under anytime soon -- getting a nextgen chip like the Voodoo2 to market six months before your competitors is a major coup. However, if they've pinned too much on the Banshee, we may soon see a major slump in the company's performance.
Buy nVidia.
Matthew McKeon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
LorDDanE, Banshee was not intended to compete directly with TNT. Look at the price points: Banshee @ $149 or less, TNT at @$299. Of course TNT better kick butt or it will be an absolute failure. What Banshee is doing is replacing the S3, Riva128, i740, and G200's of the worlds at a better price. Banshee is targeting the OEM market where ATI and Riva128 presently dominate. Keep in mind that if rumors are to be believed, Banshee may have an onboard SLI potential which will bring it within shooting range of TNT's alleged performance. Another item to keep in mind regarding nVidia products: when was the last time nVidia made an accurate claim concerning real life performance and "benchmark" numbers? If nVidia's benchmarks are to be believed, the Riva128 was supposed to blow away Voodoo, and it barely came close. Finally, nVidia is not as "big" as you may imagine. It's only big because of Riva128's success.
Quizzas
------------------------------------------------------------------------
TNT kill 3Dfx? Well, the TNT is apparently better than Banshee, based on specs. Now, 3Dfx still has a very large performance lead. With Hercules announcing a SLI single board solution, you have a card that is twice as fast as the TNT, and runs Glide games. Now, the price will have to come down, but it most certainly will. Now, if 3Dfx continues after Banshee, and comes out with another terrific product, or gets an OEM deal anywhere in between, it should certainly help anyone that has money invested. If investors are scared off by new chipsets like the TNT, and the price plummets. Well, time to buy more 3Dfx stock.
Bill Slack
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Stephen forget about guys like Micron, Dell and Compaq. If you want the best deal, go to your local computer store and get the best parts for the lowest price. For example, this is what I can get for $3,800 Canadian which is less than $3,000 US (yes it's sad we'll be calling it Canadian peso in a few years).
Asus 440BX Mother Board, Pentium II 400Mhz, 9.1GB Seagate Medalist Pro, 128MB 100MHz RAM, mid-tower ATX Case, Matrox Productiva 8MB with Diamond Monster 3D 2 8MB, 19" ViewSonic monitor, Creative Sound Blaster 64 PCI, Cambridge Soundworks speakers w/ subwoofer, Panasonic 32X CD-Rom, Diamond 56.6K PCI V.90 Int Modem, 104 Keytronic keyboard & Microsoft J-Mouse, Windows 95 OSR2.1.
None of the big names can even compare to this system.
Arvin Amirian
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Every keeps talking TNT like it will be the apocalypse or something. Does nVidia even have working silicon yet? And what about Matrox's G200 that was damn close to Voodoo2 performance at 50% clock speed with three-week old drivers. Don't even get me started about PVRNG (the true Voodoo2 killer).
Harry Robbins
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love the Riva128, it's the best 4MB 2D card I've ever got my hands on. As far as gaming is concerned, I got a Voodoo card too.
Marcus
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I expect it's time for 3Dfx to do a 2D/3D combo. I realize a lot of people may not like that and may compare it to Voodoo Rush but it's no comparison. First, the Voodoo Rush was PCI and not intended to replace the Voodoo (3D only part) and production on it practically halted which is why you don't see a Voodoo2 Rush. Second, AGP is here to stay, so Banshee is said to be a 2x AGP part. Third, 3Dfx's Glide caught the developers eye and thus the eye of end users when they saw graphics better than arcade machines glide across their screens attached to 100MHz Pentiums. No other product has had the sheer success as the Voodoo has. That my friends has made 3Dfx a household word in gamers minds. Thus I believe that Banshee will be an amazing success and I can't wait for it. One other note is that as you all know any game machine demands a Voodoo or Voodoo2 card. How much easier will it be if that card had 2D capability? My bets are on 3Dfx. It's the one that has proven to know how to do OpenGL and Direct3D as well as its own API Glide and do them right. Every other chip maker out there (including Intel in the i740 interview) compares themselves to 3Dfx. What does that tell ya? My bets are on 3Dfx. Another company that is an example of American success.
Robert & Janelle Reppert
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually in response to Mat McKeon. How will be putting in a card like the TNT sacrifice performance especially when in compared to a Voodoo2. The TNT will tear a Voodoo2 apart, and it remains to be seen about two. And the visual quality rocks. Hell for that matter a $260 video card (V2) can't even run any thing higher than 800x600? I can't see paying the extra $260 just to play games at 1024x768. The V2 isn't all it is cracked up to be. Sure it is faster than a Riva 128. Then again, does the Riva have its own API designed by them to run its programs; Kinda like the V2 (Glide). Glide was good when it came out, but it is time to step down.
Kobi Donohue
------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I am saying. Riva 128 was supposed to blow away Voodoo hands down. Well, it does as long as you went out and purchased a 300MHz Pentium II back when the 300's cost $600-700. What kind of processor will the TNT require? Will you have to have one of the new buggy Xeon's to make the TNT fly? How many people are going to pay 3-5 grand for a processor to make their video card outperform existing video cards? Not many I suspect.
Let's keep the history of claims in focus here. Companies always come out saying that their product will outperform Voodoo, but is has not happened in what, two years since the initial release of Voodoo? Now that people are claiming that their next gen products will outperform V2, should we believe them just because they 'say' it will outperform? C'mon people, keep your heads screwed on tight. We live in the era of hype/fast money making. I wonder how long it will take nVidia this time to come out with good drivers to make the card work as they claim?
Thomas Ashworth
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a Voodoo2, and if I can crow from the rooftops for six months, then that's not bad for this silly game we play. My investment strategy is to buy another Voodoo2 when the going gets tough. If the doomsayers are right, it will be good and cheap! I reckon it will be some time before a good single chip beats six reasonable chips in interleaved mode.
Phillip Nelson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Berg, you're wrong about the S3 part being faster than Voodoo2. No way is the Savage 3D faster than Voodoo2, it's a conspiracy. At E3, we looked at the Savage3D compared with the Riva and Voodoo2. Now the S3 guys there purposely ran Voodoo2 at its minimal setting and it gave a FPS of 47 in Quake II. That's ridiculous. The S3 guys told me that the Voodoo2 demo station is a P-II 400MHz, Hey! It should be getting at least 75+FPS, the S3 Savage 3D turned in 63 FPS on DEMO1. That's not going to beat Voodoo2, they're a bunch of liars just like Videologic's PowerPR.
Right now, you can be certain of TNT4's performance. Early alpha silicon shows that its not much faster than the Voodoo2, meaning it won't beat the Voodoo2 by a mile but the resolution that it can handle Quake 2 can only be matched by the Matrox G200 with 16MB. Don't forget, Matrox is going to have a faster G200 with a higher RAMDAC soon.
The 3D wars are heating up and you can't place your bets until the product is here. Voodoo2 is still king and will have enough market saturation. Banshee will do well, it can play Glide games as well, single-chip, low-cost, probably G200-like performance, and very good 2D features. I doubt the TNT4 will be a fast 2D card, the RIVA is not fast in 2D at all.
Kevin Ho" from BOOT
How can anything smell so rotten and still be alive and kicking.
Hal
PS: If this is the sort of misinformend mentality we are up against, I can rest easy. HR |
