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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (18899)	7/7/1998 10:33:00 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Respond to of 39621

Identifying a false prophet Deut. 18 19: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20: But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have notcommanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21: And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22: When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him --------------------------------------- The death of a prophet is not the identifying mark of wheter or not the prophet was true or false! (This was Norris's contention) The identifying mark of a false prophet is wheter or not the prophecy he utters comes to past. .

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (18899)	7/7/1998 10:40:00 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Was Jesus a false prophet? He was put to death by the Jewish authorities! The identifying mark of a true prophet is wheter or not his prophecies are fulfilled. Jesus was a true prophet whos prophecies were true, but He was put to death by the authorities because they claimed He was a false prophet and a false messiah. Raymond made up his own definition about the death of a prophet determining wheter he was a true prophet or a false prophet. Mohammad was a false prophet and lived a natural life to 63. Jesus was a true Prophet and He was killed by Crucifixion at the age of 33. According to Norris's invented definition of a true prophet, Mohammad was real and Jesus was false!

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (18899)	7/8/1998 1:38:00 AM
From: Don Martini	Respond to of 39621

It's a pleasure to see you use God's name, Steve Meyer! "Then they that feared Jehovah spake one with another; and Jehovah hearkened, and heard, and a book of remembrance was written before him, for them that feared Jehovah and that thought upon his name. And they shall be mine, saith Jehovah of hosts, even mine own possession." Malachi 3:16-17 ASV 1901 "May Jehovah bless you out of Zion! He the maker of the heavens and the earth." Don

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (18899)	7/8/1998 2:03:00 PM
From: Raymond James Norris	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

A good friend that I spoke to about the verse you were having trouble with put a little different spin on it. He felt that it was a command to the people of God, that if a false prophet was discovered among them (God could have easily told them about such a person, if the people could not tell themselves), they should put him to death (See Lev. 24:16). Steve - If you are willing to admit that this is a "physical death" but one of commandment instead of law, you still have a problem with Deuteronomy. You seem to be forgetting the context that Deuteronomy mentions the death of that prophet. Deuteronomy 18:18-22 is interesting because we have some foreshadowing of verses we read Jesus (Pbuh) speak. Deuteronomy 18:18 "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brothers, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." Notice any similarities from previous discussions?? If not, let me refresh your memory: John 16:12-14 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you." This is interesting. In John 16, Jesus (Pbuh) speaks of the "comforter" who "shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak." In Deuteronomy the same promise is made by God. Deuteronomy 18:19 continues: "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. But the Prophet which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a Prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken. But the prophet hath spoken it presumptously, thou shall not be afraid of him." This is intriguing. In Deuteronomy 18:18, we have a promise of a Prophet to be raised up from among the Brothers of the Israelites (I wonder who the brothers of the Israelites are) who shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak. We have Jesus (Pbuh) make the same promise referring to this same Prophet. And then Deuteronomy concludes by giving us criteria to judge whether or not a prophet is sent from God. The criteria mentioned are (1) That the prophet that speaks in the name of the Lord words that he was not commanded shall be killed and that (2) the Prophet which speaks of something before it occurs (presumptously), that Prophet shall be from God. Let's compare with a verse from the Qur'an: "Nor does he (Muhammad) speak of his own desire. It is but an Inspiration that is inspired [unto him]" The noble Qur'an 53:3-4 All Muslims believe that Muhammad (Pbuh) only spoke what God told him. Muhammad (Pbuh) instructed during his lifetime that the people not write down what he said unless he told them that it was revelation because he didn't want his words being mixed up with God's words. As I have stated before, Muhammad's (Pbuh) narration is no where to be found in the Qur'an. He was illiterate (Isaiah 29:11-18). So now for the logical reader, all the points come together. It begins to make clear sense. God promises the people a false Prophet shall be killed (that's how to distinguish a true prophet from a false prophet). The fact the Prophet must speak of things presumptously is not an area we have hit yet but I can give you a long list of Prophecies in the Qur'an that have come to pass (from the Romans beating the Persians to the landing on the moon). This is a prophecy without ambiguity. There is no need for interpretation when the meaning is explicit. Just another plausible explanation IMO I thought was worth mentioning. Steve my friend, you cannot jump from interpretations to interpretations. That is, if your previous interpretation gave you some trouble, you cannot jump to a different one on a certain points and back to the other on different points. You must be consistent. Either you accept your first interpretation (which has the problem of God informing his people on how to judge a False Prophet from a True Prophet) or you take the second one (which has the same problem). Peace Be Unto You, Ray