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Pastimes : Chatting With and About God the Father -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: gregor who wrote (254)	7/8/1998 11:34:00 AM
From: Jane Hafker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 638

Also, we never make it quite clear that most all of the people who ever care to say anything on a thread like this are usually ALL quite born again. Otherwise, what in the world would the interest be? None. Except curiousity as to what in the world these poor bored people find interesting discussing scripture day after day. John, you must remember the scripture where one of the first things that Peter or John, whichever, shouted to the on-lookers after the Holy Spirit fell on the whole huge crowd WHILE they were preaching, was"Don't get the wrong impression here--these men are not drunk. They haven't been drinking this early in the morning and that's why they are so happy" I have experienced the falling of the Holy Spirit on whole crowds or small groups of people myself to an awesome and almost paralyzing degree, pushing people first down on their knees and then slowly seeing the whole room disappear as people literally put their heads on the floor or carpet to keep praying uninterrupted. That spirit of prayer is one result. The other is a total exhileration and pure joy, and the true Holy Spirit seems to end up as much as anything I've seen with people breaking out into beautiful singing, and in the old days, that in tongues, accompanied by what I call the "golden dust" that seems to be sprinkled on your head and you can feel it going all the way through your body. I felt so much of that for nearly 3 years I was led to believe it was a permanent condition of life. AU CONTRAIRE. I've also witnessed it over and over in other people more times than I could count or remember, but haven't seen anything of what I speak, PERSONALLY, now in almost 15 years. But for instance, there was a real drop-dead good looking cop in S.F. called Sgt Sunshine because one day he toked up on the City Hall steps or something, and lost his badge. SAid he couldn't keep arresting kids for doing acid, etc. He was a real fascinating person, would love to know where he is now. He showed up at the same place I got saved, and got saved apparently the evening I did, I think. I was at a born again preacher's farm and it had become a pilgrimage God was taking many people on strangely down this little back road there to the middle of nowhere in Oregon. Sgt. Sunshine was now married, and they were both fairly obviously hippies by then, several months later, and his wife had a weird name like Princess or something. This is what I saw with my own eyes, and this was the evening before the Lord touched me physically so I wasn't sure what was going on, I just KNEW I felt real, real happy. I guess he was praying with some people and there was a balcony porch on the main floor, about a story up at least.. He was full of joy and almost yelling," Praise you Jesus, I love you Jesus" and then he ran to the balcony, one-armed over it many feet to the grass below and ran out into the pasture in the dark and we could hear him praising God in a mighty voice for some time, and then some other guy was out there doing the same thing, and THAT'S WHY PETER AND JOHN SAID TO THEIR ON-LOOKERS--NO! THESE GUYS HAVE NOT BEEN DRINKING, BUT THEY ARE FULL OF THE NEW WINE OF JESUS CHRIST. What you see here is the quiet behavior of those that have prayed a similar prayer and for a long period of time experienced enough of a miracle realm to know for a fact that God is indeed quite real, and the only way to ever truly experience Him is simply as He dictates: believe on Jesus Christ as the Son of God and you will be saved. What happens down the Path is often incredibly mundane comparitively, but to get off the Path at all is so terrible after awhile, one happily gets back on and proceeds once again QUITE HAPPILY toward the Heavenly City. Again, I doubt this could be possible for so many to do exactly the same thing century after century if it was in fact our imagination. That is another proof of God, actually. So, John, you are looking thinking, that's funny, I don't have this bizarre obsession with Jesus Christ....hummmmmmmmm....weird that they do. No, not weird at all. We have simply obeyed Jesus Christ, who has said that YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN TO SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Think about it.

To: gregor who wrote (254)	7/8/1998 10:44:00 PM
From: Gregory D. John	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 638

Gregor, Perhaps I misunderstood your intentions when I thanked you for your kind words. I was under the impression that you were recounting a story for my benefit. In any case, I always feel that attempts at conversion such as yours are intended out of kindness. Although I did not become born again, I still appreciate the kindness (if it was indeed there or if it was there even unintentionally). I don't think the idea of comparing accomplishments is a reasonable method of evaluating religion. Religion is, obviously, a great influence on a culture. That a culture may excel in technology or arts or science or war or whatever as a direct result and, hence, a justification or "proof" of the influencing religion may be misleading. Your argument that the reason Western culture "drawfs" others in the accomplishments that you list is because of and hence a justification of the Holy Spirit is specious. I challenge you to reconsider this argument. If you wish, I will help challenge it with you. Once again, I thank you for your kindness (misdirected or unintentional though it may be). :-) Greg