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To: LTK007 who wrote (493)	7/16/1998 9:45:00 PM
From: Len Giammetta	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 2365

Duh? I must be burned out. I'm not sure I understand how a group, placing numerous small buys as they drive the price up, and placing numerous small sells,as they drive the price down would be very profitable. As they drive the price up isn't their average cost increasing and visa-versa? And what about all those commissions? Seems to me they'd be lucky to break even with that strategy. When you feel more energetic, maybe you could explain what I'm missing. Thanks, Len

To: LTK007 who wrote (493)	7/17/1998 10:02:00 AM
From: Sonny	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 2365

offtopic-on-soes> As I have heard, after 1996, MMs have also become much more sophisticated in their detection-ability for SOES plays. In short, basically 2-ways they identify a SOES source and isolate their systems from issuing any alerts: 1. Tracking TCP/IP originating-host addresses in the form of keeping a global-list which is checked against known soes-sources, instantaneously. 2. Detecting the 1/8 th pattern (with in-between bid-ask orders) moves based on timing-volume- and-source. But of course, soes players also like to keep one step ahead of these detection systems, by globally distributing their trading desks, and dynamically varying the orders' source and pattern by some learning / adaptable neural-network algorithms, which strive to make them non-repeatable, thus, circumventing easy detection systems. There is a huge demand for software programmers in both camps, and salaries are out of this world, imho! regards to all, -/Sonny.