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Microcap & Penny Stocks : Tokyo Joe's Cafe / Anything goes -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Dave Gore who wrote (29428)7/22/1998 5:30:00 PM
From: StkProfit$   Respond to of 34592
 
Nice post Dave,,,yeah, I've heard of them.

I'll repost this message with your permission wherever I find them doing their work.

Regards,
-Mark



To: Dave Gore who wrote (29428)7/22/1998 5:33:00 PM
From: Janice Shell  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 34592
 
Congratulations, Dave, on yet ANOTHER nomination to Thread Morons!!

You hang out with the hypesters, you're a hypester yourself, but evidently proud of it. Everyone, absolutely DO NOT MISS Graystone's brilliant post about Dave's iter at ISDN:

exchange2000.com

Of course we must believe DAVE: it was ALL the fault of TMex.

Right.



To: Dave Gore who wrote (29428)7/22/1998 5:40:00 PM
From: Mr.Manners  Respond to of 34592
 
I asked you one time before.. then I asked you again.. both times I received no reply: show me one post where I have bashed a stock.

Otherwise you are making a false accusation.

Invade threads?..nuts. I post where I want to post.

They, like the infamous Stock Detective, who some feel are one and the same, have
targeted 5-10 companies


perhaps you might explain what you mean by targeted... there isn't any group effort... because there isn't any group. Therefore Janice cannot be the 'ringleader'. That is another false and moronic accusation.

You might write to Stock Detective and tell them you've made the rumor public. See how they respond. Can you say 'libel?'

This crap about personal attacks - finish it. If someone I like is attacked, as I have said many times before, I will stand against that - I do not initiate it. Thus, no personal attacks - but an honest defense.

The modus operandi is to just plain WEAR PEOPLE OUT AND SCARE AWAY NEW POTENTIAL
INVESTORS. It is clear as day.


This is obvious and totally unmitigated malicious speculation, as well as slander. If not just an opinion, offer up some proof.

Your tactics of placing SI and new members, or 'scared' members on one side, is blatant manipulation of the facts. If there are people who cannot stand facts, as evidenced by SEC documents, rather than pumped by cheerleading and misleading statements of hope, then they would probably be better off not personally investing. Though hopefully they would learn to consider a balance of the hope and the reality, and become better investors.

why did they let CYGS run up
from 30 cents to over $2.00 before saying anything? And why don't they offer real proof if they honestly believe it is a scam?


What kind of inanity is this? How did 'we' allow it to run up? Would barriers of common sense have prevented a virtual equivalent, though on a much smaller scale, of tulipmania?
My posts mostly had to do with statements against the hysteria that occasioned people posting things like 'wait til cygs solves world disease' and the thing about the dog being named in line with a statement of 'humanitarian of the year award.'

Honestly, I am speculating only and I have no conclusive proof, but since that does not stop them,
and since this post will hopefully help the small investor..I march on...
march on, or use this as a vainglorious attempt to grab more attention for yourself?

ARE THEY BEING PAID TO INVADE THREADS?
No one has proof of that, but again it fits the profile.


You have statements that I do not do so. Janice has said that she is not paid for it as well. If you continue to post this without proof, you are making false accusations and demonstrating a deliberate ignorance in that you only post what you so desperately wish to believe.
Then, what is your motive, really....
Could it be this?......It is akin to a person being accused of a crime they are
innocent of. Often many still remember the arrest and assume guilt.


Are they not spamming threads through pre-planned group activity? Are they not clearly trying to
incite people with personal attacks?


See above in regards to the accusations and guilt - you have no proof. These amount to suppositions posted to appear as facts, as does the tenor of your post. You are inciting, you are attacking.

And it would do you well if SI did something about it. Your speculation about SI is tantamount to libel.
SI is a great place, and I'm sure many feel the same way. Also that if you have facts, anyone can safely post - and not just uninformed wishes and dreams, while even those are answered despite at times being aligned with Belief.

Your last statement in regard to that post summing up SI at this stage?.. no hype?.. any stock thread that has people make personal attacks when it is posted that their frozen embryos could not be re-animated as a matter of fact, and not of opinion, is insulated with hype to the degree that it had perhaps gone unnoticed prior to that time.

CONCLUSION: WHY THIS GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED
More slander. And a falsehood: no group.

You have ignored statements to the contrary of what the tenor of your post suggests and claims. It appears you are attempting to associate accusation with guilt, as you yourself suggested.

One phrase at this time for your post, if SI does do something about it: hoist on your own petard.



To: Dave Gore who wrote (29428)7/22/1998 5:53:00 PM
From: StkProfit$   Respond to of 34592
 
I was starting to think of abandoning SI myself because of all this sadism, etc, on SI. The BS of other boards is becoming alot more bearable after dealing with alot of this type of nonsense. I paid good money because I thought SI would not allow "basher only" types. Guess I was wrong,,,I know that even though I still frequent SI, I've stopped recommending them as much, and have even considered not mentioning the fact that I have SI. Looks like SI is going downhill fast to me, but then again I've only been on SI for a short while.

Regards,
-Mark



To: Dave Gore who wrote (29428)7/22/1998 7:00:00 PM
From: marcos  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 34592
 
"The most aggressive seem to be ... MARCOS ..."

Dave, Dave, Dave ... you have gored my ox a little in your fumbling way. I do not give a damn what you say about me in the scattered depths of your paranoid delusions, but I do mildly care - not much, mind you - just mildly do I care how you spell my name. It is marcos, all small letters, men£sculas as we say down on the rancho. Caps = shouting = rudeness in the civilised world, fyi.

No time here to decipher your whole post, tried to but couldn't follow the logic or count the trains of thought, but got the general drift and just fyi;

My 'thing' is threats - I really do not give a damn that hypesters like Big Dog and the Rocketeers and the other countless SI pumpsters of non-reporting bulletin board paper continually cheat the unwary on this forum - that sort of thing has always and will always be with us, and people just have to get burnt a few times to learn their lesson, imho.

But threats - like the death threat against Forthright on the CYGS thread or against varios people including myself on the MTEI thread or the posting of Janice's supposed location on the EDII thread by the big brave polic¡a man from San Antone - threats are bad, imho. Threats threaten the future of open intelligent discussion. Threats are to be discouraged, imho, or we all lose.

So just to recap;
I arrived on the MTEI thread to comment on the death threats by 'DIRK DIGGLER' et al.
I arrived on the CYGS thread to comment on the death threat by 'UNDERTAKER'.
I arrived on the EDII thread to comment on the threat to Janice by 'Ken M.'.

So go ahead - hype your garbage, mint some coin, cheat some people - I really don't give a damn.
Just don't threaten nobody, it makes your stock look reeeeeeaaaaly stinky.
While it makes you look like even more of an idiot than your paranoid theories do.

Que cada uno coseche lo que siembra ............ marcos*

* - notice the spelling - but if you like, go ahead, be an idiot and spell it in caps.



To: Dave Gore who wrote (29428)7/22/1998 8:30:00 PM
From: Alan Smithee  Respond to of 34592
 
Strong words Dave, strong words. Now back them up.

A group? A group that always picks stocks that have run up and " always attempt[s] to spread fear and doubt without any conclusive proof?" Are you suggesting there is a conspiracy out there on the SI boards to bash perfectly good stocks that have run up? Aside from the fact that certain people make posts on various threads questioning the fundamentals of a stock, where is your proof of this organized, concerted conspiracy? I am sure others would be interested to see it.


I'd suggest that before you start throwing around threats of class action lawsuits you do your own DD and have facts to support your claims. I cannot speak to all of the names you named in your rambling, uninformed post, but I do know Kasha. I have known Kasha since March, 1997, which is a fair bit longer than you've been around SI. I know Kasha is not part of any "group" dedicated to bashing stocks. Rather, he responds as necessary to unjustified attacks, such as those of a poster who made a totally unfounded charge of insider trading without any substantiation whatsoever (and who failed to provide any proof, even though he claimed it was available). Fact of the matter is, Kasha made a detailed response to your post on this thread, and I would be interested in seeing your response.

If you read through Kasha's posts on various threads, you will see a response to personal attacks made by other posters. A number of those posters failed to abide by SI's terms of use and have now been suspended (web jail) or permanently banned from SI.

I have been around for some time on SI, and have seen a lot of posting on individual stock threads that sometimes borders on hysteria and fantasy. In some cases, anyone who dares to raise fundamental issues regarding the stock is attacked. I know a respected member of SI who was run off the CSCO thread for having the temerity to suggest that the stock was due for a fall. Jack Raines stopped posting on the INTC thread after being excoriated for daring to suggest the stock might not continue into the stratosphere. Is that rational behavior on the part of the regulars on these threads? I0 think not.

I recall a recent post by the founder of one of the EDII threads to the effect that anyone who didn't have good things to say about the stock should pack up and leave. HUH? How does this help with the flow of information and ideas? (In fairness, he came back and agreed with me ultimately that differing points of view should be tolerated).

I personally was singled out for an attack by someone (who, unlike you I will not name here) from the EDII thread for a post I made on that thread. The poster suggested that I be put on "the list" whatever that is. I was accused of being a "bit snippy" on the EDII thread. What???? A bit snippy? If you care to check, the link is:

ragingbull.com

I agree that some of the discussions on SI have degenerated in quality. I disagree with you as to what caused such degeneration. What is clear is that the posters who have been banned or suspended have gone on the attack after someone had the temerity to raise issues about the fundamentals of certain stocks. A number of those attacks were personal and violated the SI Terms of Use. One such violation included the posting of personal information, including a telephone number. That is totally unacceptable.

SI has been and will continue to be a useful place for the exchange of information and ideas. Personal attacks, however, should not be tolerated. You name names and ramble on and on about a "group" who actively goes from thread to thread to destroy stocks and discussion. I trust you have proof and will share it. You suggest a class action lawsuit? Give me a break. On what basis? What would the claim be?

I'd suggest, Dave, that the best thing to do if you don't like someone's posts, is to skip them. That is what the "Next" button is for. In the alternative, in Netscape, you can you select Bookmarks, Edit Bookmarks, highlight: techstocks.com and right click. Next, select the delete option. I believe "cut" would also work.



To: Dave Gore who wrote (29428)7/22/1998 9:22:00 PM
From: STEAMROLLER  Respond to of 34592
 
what i want to know is were did you find the time to write that post. listen dave, keep your wars and personal vendetas on your own thread. do you even have one, i would guess you do since you have not been around in awhile. i have just ignored your posts of the past, but this one takes the cake. that crap goes on because of pump and dumps and stock promoters. you want to share the wealth of real stock trading...

siliconinvestor.com

i am the real thing, no personal motives, just good daytrades, good people sharing runners, and lots of money. $$$$$$$ i make money my way, scalping points all day like a pro. SR



To: Dave Gore who wrote (29428)7/23/1998 7:07:00 AM
From: K A Anderson  Respond to of 34592
 
As Paul Harvey says "now for the rest of the story".... any of this sound familiar?

MR. SHORT
Exclusive to Mr. Cyriuss
July, 1998

MORE ABOUT STOCK OPERATORS

After perusing numerous chat forum subjects, we concluded that the
average investor is in the dark about how a small cap deal really works.
While many blame the promoter(s), few are even aware a stock operator
manipulated them into their misery.

Examine any thread with several thousand postings and you will hear,
after the stock's demise, the pathetic grumbling of the believer. The
investor believed the story. The investor blamed the stock promoter or
newsletter writer, often for his own failings. The regulatory campaign
against newsletter writers exists only to beat the bushes and flush out
the true crooks: the stock operators. This strategy is hardly working
and stock operators continue fleecing the public.

Early in our own education on Wall Street, we learned about
newsletter
writers. If they are so good, why are they writing about the stocks
instead of trading those stocks themselves? Successful traders are often
too busy to share their secrets with you. No professional trader, in his
right mind, would tip you off to a hot stock until AFTER he accumulated
all the stock he could, even if went into hock to do so. Successful
stock operators operate along that same course.

Professional currency operators, hedge fund operators, only begin
their
media campaigns to generate bids so they can cover their positions. Did
you notice recently the media uproar, over the Japanese Yen, just before
that currency reversed course? That is how they manipulate the media so
they can close out their positions. A hedge fund operator, on the order
of George Soros, lends money to help bail out governments, as he earlier
did with Russia, with a $200 million bridge loan.

The most successful stock operators were once stockbrokers or traders
that turned to the promotion game because it paid better. Only when they
mastered marketing did they become operators.

In the penny stock world, stock operators turn to this vocation
because
they were banned from promotions or censured because of one or more
failed promotions. Have no sympathy for such characters because their
incompetence or criminality generally rings up more than $10 million in
losses before the regulator stings them. In their shadow world, and
often-extravagant lifestyle, the promoter sinks deeper into the bog and
becomes an operator. When his name has been sullied, he becomes an
operator.

The stock operator is the truly dangerous force in the penny stock
market. Because he is hidden and very effective, the operator has the
capability of creating high drama in a stock. He is the one who feeds
hyperbolic phrases to his stable of unwitting, but bought, stock
promoters. He is the one who hires the slugs to riddle chat groups with
flowery projections about the stock, the same slugs that howl about the
shortsellers and ridicule detractors. It is the stock operator who
trades the stock to higher price, forcing shorts to cover and enticing
the average shareholder to buy more and more and more.

The stock operator bribes brokers to recommend the stock to clients.
He
is the one who greases the wheels for funds to add positions. He weaves
the story for the promoters and captures their souls with options, cheap
or free stock. Others he locks into private placements, which means
you'll keep hearing about that stock until the letter writer or promoter
has cashed out.

The best stock operators are more effective in a bear market.
Speculators are more desperate for a good score to bail them out of
their previous losses. Most of the tricks used by today's stock
operators were perfected before and during the US Great Depression.
Indeed, the greater part of US securities law was born after the bottom
of that economic collapse because of the scams that conned investors
during the long drought of that period.

If you recently lost in the western Canadian or OTC markets, you are
among the best candidates for the next big scam. You will be eager to
recoup your losses. Your name is on an email or fax list. Someone has
your phone number or your address. You attended an investment
conference, subscribed to a newsletter or joined a chat forum, right?
They will find their way to you. But, in actuality, it is you who will
reach for their next story.

There is no shortage of lemmings itching for the quick buck. Penny
stocks offer a leverage unavailable in the senior markets. Where else
can you potentially gain by 1000% or more? That, at least, is the hope.
More lose 70, 80 or 90 percent of their investment than those lucky few
that score a double or better. Just as there are great numbers of future
losers lining up to spin the penny stock roulette wheel, there are
dozens of new promoters champing at the bit to launch a new career.
Hundreds of new speculators, who think they can beat the odds. This game
won't stop because of the regulators.

The veteran stock operator is far too clever to be caught. His
attorneys
skillfully devise a strategy to detect and eliminate regulatory
reprimand. Poor suckers, those newsletter writers - they are bribed by
the operator and would also harm themselves by blowing the whistle. The
same goes for others trapped in his web. Regulators can do little in
stopping even the most treacherous operator. A handful every few years
are nailed, but rarely are those the best operators.

Many stock operators are merely auditioning for the job. One finds
those
half-baked stock promotions that helplessly sputter, leaving investors
bid-less, after a few short weeks. Amateur promoters, with not much of a
position, bluster and fumble while their following sinks down the drain.
IR staff that cash out their options during the first rocket ride.
Traders and shortselling syndicates obliterate their promotions. Indeed,
these traders and groups accelerate the upswing so they can obtain a
large enough short position to make it worth their while. Financiers who
initially fund these mock operators blow them away during the
roller-coaster ride.

The better the stock operator, the more glorified the presentation.
The
price target will represent a stratospheric valuation. The story will
include the overcoming of known obstacles, which are always to the
company's benefit. The opposition will be painted as incompetent or
desperate for what this company has. In the final, sometimes in the
earlier, stages there will be takeover talk. After all, if the property
or product is so good, a brand-name company will want what your tiny
company has in their stable of acquisitions. Because there are the
occasional, if infrequent, successes, the possibility alone sounds worth
the minor speculation. If you've been had before, you may even take the
quick profit, kick yourself for missing the "big run" and then find
yourself back in the stock at a higher price. That, again, is one of the
stock operator's tricks.

Blaming the promoters for your losses is as senseless as blaming a
gun
or bullet for someone's murder. Who pulled the trigger? The stock
operator. He designed the battle and already knows who's going to win or
die.

Once you are hooked into a story, the exit doors seal shut and you
can
not escape. At the exact moment that you begin to care about the
small-cap company, you are hooked. There is little to separate yourself
from the fantasy that is being created, for you, too, have become
imbedded in this dream. How pathetic are the defenders of those
manipulated stocks when you read their comments on the Internet chat
forums. The operators are howling in laughter. So are the professionals.
Without the little suckers, there is no one to fleece.

An entire industry has grown around the penny stock marketplace:
newsletters, specialized quote services, news release services,
stockbrokers, stock promoters, traders, shortsellers, whistleblowers,
chat forums, financiers and others. Regulators are too busy and
under-funded to eliminate the gross fraud perpetuated in this industry.
The infrequent indicted or penalized promoters are but grains of sand
across an entire beach. The powerful broker-dealers, especially in
Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal and Toronto live too well to resign from
this industry. The US penny stockbrokers love the fast and easy money of
the small cap business. They get cheap paper, dump during the
promotional runup and then shortsell for the ride down the tubes.

Where does this leave you? If you are fortunate, you will suffer
minor
losses and walk away from the game. That is unlikely. What drove you to
the penny stock markets will keep you there. Speculating in penny stocks
will never restructure the missing discipline in your life, which led
you to the hot tip in the first place. Your options are slim: walk away
disappointed, continue losing until you are broke, evolve into a cynic
using stock certificates for wallpaper, or learn the discipline
professional traders use to play these markets. At some future point, a
new promotion will strike your fancy and you may again be suckered into
the irresistibility of it all. A new mining discovery might bring you
back into the exploration market. And so it goes.

The hallmark of successful trades, that which separates the
professional winner from the novice loser, is technical analysis. There
is no substitute. Some use it but not enough and even fewer analyze
consistently well. With the breadth of available technical indicators,
most shun this subject or barely grasp more than a few basics. In this
business, knowing a little makes you dangerous. Technical analysis is
not a toy, but a powerful weapon. Judging from our cursory review of
numerous Internet chat groups, technical analysis is only occasionally
mentioned proportionate to the great number of postings discussing
daydreams and fantasies, rumors and wishful thinking, defenses,
complaints over shortsellers and promoters, soaring hopes and crushed
expectations, and general drivel.

It is our hope to radically alter the course of penny stock swindles
and Internet discussion groups. The next issue you will receive from
the Cyriuss group of publications: The Technical Register. This Internet
service will evaluate the most active venture issues traded on the
speculative stock exchanges, solely on the basis of technical
indicators.