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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: mark silvers who wrote (19385)	7/23/1998 9:14:00 AM
From: DLL	Respond to of 39621

Dear Mark; How have you been? I think that part of your reaction to Emile's post was natural. Not correct I admit but natural because of the experiences you have had with him on the thread. His little attempt a parody was a joke because he also speaks in very inflamatory tones which is why everyone reacts the way they do. When he attacked Shalom I just laughed because the words he used seemed typical of Emile to me and not Shalom. I do not know if Shalom used these words himself but my general impression of Shalom is that he speaks in loving terms. My impression of Emile is that he generally attacks. It is impossible to divorce these facts from mere words. Emile deservers to be called to account for the words he uses. We all do. However the tone of our conversation comes through over time and this is also an important part of the reaction we deserve. In Yeshua's love for you - DLL

To: mark silvers who wrote (19385)	7/23/1998 9:54:00 AM
From: Alan Markoff	Respond to of 39621

Dear Mark, From the lessons we can learn from history ignoring hateful comments that focus on a group of people leads to destruction and death. However I don't see that confrontation is accomplishing much either, so I too am interested in input on this problem.IMO prayer seems to be the only avenue to bring peace for Yeshua is the Prince of Peace and He said that ALL things are possible with God. God made us all and knows us all intimately so maybe we should all turn this over to Him today and find the peace He gives and wait for His wisdom that He promises to all who ask without showing partiality. Nancy

To: mark silvers who wrote (19385)	7/23/1998 9:56:00 AM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST	Respond to of 39621

Mark (from Bob), I like the fact that you want peace. I pray that we all do. I always think the best thing to do is mend the ways. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I always have an opinion. My opinion is that we all fall short of being perfect and we will never change unless we are open to good honest criticism based on a Biblical standard. I myself (and most of us) am not open to criticism if it's delivered in any other way but love for me. If it's done in an attacking spirit you can bet that I will not listen and in fact will get quite defensive. I don't feel there will ever be progress made to mend ways in any circles if there is an attitude of superiority be either party in a dispute. The name calling is beyond rediculous and I agree with someone elses post that it occurs here because of the web being a cold place (ie. not face to face). I welcome change and pray that I continue to change for the better (I certainly need to). It's great to here from you. PS I'm reattaching my prior post, just curious if you have any comments. Have a great day!! Mark (from Bob), I agree these conversations are interesting. <<I believe that most people make things way too difficult. This is one of those things. I think that if you were to really look at your life, the highest and noblest actions that you have undertaken, are undertaken with love and compassion in mind. At least that is how it is for me. With that in mind, I expect God to follow that path in ways far greater than I am able.>> I agree with almost everything you said here. 1. I believe that people do make things way to difficult. I believe that believing God loves us enough to die for us and reconcile us to Him is much simpler than some elaborate and inexact scheme of our souls evolving. 2. I agree that the greatest things I've accomplished have been done in love. But love for those who love or even like me is nothing special. It is God who has given me the ability to love those who curse me, and He has given me the ability to love Him when I was even at war with Him. Truly Christ died for me when I was a sinner. I do however disagree with the mindset that God should follow a path that we set forth. I don;t think you mean that, I think it's just the way you worded the statement. Truly our ability to love is modeled after God's infinate love, again the greatest expression of His love is the giving of Himself for us. That is how we are to follow the path He established, by giving ourselves to Him and to others. You see, He has already established the most noble path, He gave Himself for others - we are to follow suit along this path. Soul evolution: You are either referring to reincarnation or an evolution of the soul in the current life. Soul evolution in current life: My experiences or trying to improve myself, no matter how hard and how impassioned the effort, have failed. I have a long history of failed New Years resolutions and broken promises of change to prove it. Until I had a relationship with the Messiah, I was not able to change myself. Through His help, I am able to change. I'm able to love where there was no love before, have compassion where none existed. He has even removed the desires for destructive things from my heart. A reformed alcoholic stil desires alcohol and has to be onguard, the Messiah actually removes the desire. (This is an example, fortunatly alcoholism was not one of my problems). Truly the evolution of the soul to the higher path comes from God through the Messiah. Soul evolution through many lives: Evolution never made sense to me. Question: If we are to evolve through many lives moving toward perfection, why don't we clearly remember the successes and failures of past lives as we do our current life? The way we learn and 'evolve' in our current life is through vivid recollection of successes and failures. God's higher and nobler path comes through love and humility. Two traits I'm sure you'll agree are wonderful. He loved us enough to die for us, and even though He is the Creator, He humbled Himself to become one of us. By us taking the stance that we can evolve our souls to perfection we are completely eliminating humility and replacing it with pride. Pride leads us to believe that we can evolve our souls. Truly pride is not a formula in the higher and nobler path. Thanks for the response. I hope that love is coming through and not condemnation, for truly I do care. Talk with you soon. Bob

To: mark silvers who wrote (19385)	7/23/1998 10:32:00 AM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

" hate filled and condemning of both Jews and Christians alike, " One quote from me will do. Not two or more but only one that shows hatred towards Jewish people or Christian people. I hate all false religions and pholosophies that deny the Lord Jesus Christ and also teach others to deny Him. When I say deny Jesus, I mean deny his divinity, his messiahship, his Curcifixion and Resurrection for the sins of mankind and his oneness with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Do you also consider the New Testament hate filled and condemnatory towards antichrist Judaism? You cannot distinguish between hating a religion and a philsophy and hating individual humans. Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish the philosophy and religion from the individual who holds it. In Christianity, a true Christian cannot be separated from his religion. His religion is Christ and being one with Christ. For true Christians, their religion defines their individuality. All other religions are false and are nothing but a social or cultural coat of paint. There religion is not themselves. Let me illustrate the point. Rabbi Meir Kahane was one of the most hate-filled individuals I have ever met. He had taken the teachings lf of Modern Judaism and the Babylonian Talmud literally. He really believed that only Jews were really human. He was honest about his beliefs and spoke them openly. This shocked many uninformed Jews and Christains alike. They generally could not handle his bold honesty about his beliefs. It seemed like some of the cultural, social and religious paint had penetrated the core of his being. Many of my liberal Jewish relatives and friends reacted to his teachings with horror. After personally listening to his blunt antichrist rhetoric, I developed a deep love for the man. I could clearly see the chains that mdoern antichrist Judaism had put around his heart. He was a product of the central themse of Talkmudic Judaism but he was not to openly proclaim his beliefs. I still have the hope that somehow he accepted Jesus Christ before he died by an assassin's bullet. Moshe Dayan was another radical modern antichrist Jew that I kept in my prayers in a special way. He had a tremendous change of heart in his last few years that makes me believe that he may have received Jesus as his Saviour. In conclusion, I hate modern antichrist Judaism; I hate antichrist Zionism; I hate antichrist Islam; I hate antichrist Unitarianism: but I love all the memebers of these religions of darkness an death.