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Pastimes : And The 7th Angel Sounded -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: O'Hara who wrote (425)	8/2/1998 2:48:00 PM
From: Sidney Reilly	Respond to of 609

Hi shalom, I'm glad to see your post. You said a few things that are close to what I get from the word and also a few things that I cannot see. I submit this for your thoughtful consideration. <<To the contrary Tom. This harvesting which is done with a sharp sickle spoken of is thrust into the vine. Note Tom that sickles are never used to gather fruit from a vine, it would splatter and destroy the fruit within it. The harvest here in this account cannot be of Christians. Also note Rev 14:20 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.>> Now the sickle is used to harvest grain as John the Baptist's prophesied in Matt. 3:12 and this lines up with Rev. 14:14-16. "And His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." A sickle is used to harvest wheat, but I think the sickle is symbolic of the harvest anyhow. God is going to thoroughly clean His threshing floor. There will be no wheat or tares left after this harvest. The wheat, the christians are harvested (caught up to be with the Lord) and the tares (unsaved) are gathered and thrown into the wine press of the wrath of God. Now the wine press of the wrath of God is the plagues that are poured out to punish the world, after that they are thrown into the unquenchable fire, final judgement. We do go through the entire tribulation but are spared God's wrath just as the scripture states. The actual separating of the wheat from the tares is the process of the mark of the beast. Those who take it are tares, those that don't are wheat, the christians. That is God's perfect plan. Until this generation it was appointed for men to live and die and then the judgement can be made, are they Jesus's or not. But this last generation has not lived and died. A whole generation has to be judged who have not died, they have to be separated without having lived their whole lives. So God's plan is to have them choose themselves by the process of the mark of the beast, the final generation chooses their own judgement. Therefore God's judgement is just, He will not just say, "Times UP" without having a whole process of warning and informing everyone what is at stake BEFORE they take the mark. We the church will inform the world and then like Noah when he believed God and started building the ark WE will condemn the world to judgement. But not before everyone has the INFORMED choice and also a time to repent even of that decision if they have chosen the mark (as many christians will be deceived and do just that). In Matt. 24;29-31 29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE IT'S LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the power of the heavens will be shaken, 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels WITH A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF THE SKY FROM THE OTHER. The caps here represent OT prophecies that Jesus is putting together to describe His return. In Rev. 14:14 the description of the son of man is the same as Jesus just described in Matthew. 14 And I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head, and a sharp sickle in His hand. (according to my bible a more accurate translation of "a son of man" is "the Son of Man") 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Put in your sickle and reap, because the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16 And He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth; and the earth was reaped. Amen, Come Lord Jesus!!

To: O'Hara who wrote (425)	8/4/1998 10:47:00 AM
From: WTCausby	Respond to of 609

Dear Shalom: I am enjoying this study and find it extremely useful in conducting the Sunday school class which began on Sunday on the topic of end-times. The topic has caused a great stir in my church and I believe we will have (at least for our small church) a rather large turnout for this topic. Shalom, you wrote: "This harvesting which is done with a sharp sickle spoken of is thrust into the vine. Note Tom that sickles are never used to gather fruit from a vine, it would splatter and destroy the fruit within it. The harvest here in this account cannot be of Christians." I quite agree that Revelation 14:17-20 discusses a harvesting not of Christians, but of those who are thrown into "...the great winepress of God's wrath." v.19. However, Rev 14:14-16 describes another harvest which precedes the harvest described in verses 17-20. This is the harvest of the true Christians which precedes God's wrath. Notice that verse 16 says that "...he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested." Then verse 17 says, "Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle." It was this, the second angel, who harvested those who would see God's wrath. Therefore, these verses speak of two harvests, not just one. The first harvest is that of true believers, those who had not taken the mark of the Beast, and the second harvest into the winepress of God's wrath are those who have taken the mark of the Beast. These verses do, I believe, support a pre-wrath rapture of the true church. Shalom, am I correct that in your interpretation the Church will still be here when God pours our his wrath on the earth? If this is your view, what are we to make of the promise in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 which states: "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." Isn't this a promise made through prophecy that the Church will not suffer God's wrath? How can the Church be on earth when God's great wrath begins as described in Revelation and yet not suffer it as well? Bear in mind, I am not speaking of the tribulation which is the time of trouble primarily associated with the persecution by the antichrist. It is only the pretribulational rapturists who believe the Church will escape that. Rather, I am speaking of God's wrath. In Christ, Tom