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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (19908)	8/4/1998 1:01:00 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

"Did those with the Faith of Abraham continue not in God's covenant? To me, this is not logical. It was the Faith of Abraham that saved him. Let's substantiate this by the New Testament;" Greetings, and thank you for pushing on in the midst of our heated discussion. The house of Israel and the house of Judah as a whole did not, but the remanant always did, just as in the days of Elijah when only 7000 out of millions continued in the faith of Abraham. The faith of Abrham saved him through the hope in the coming Messiah--his reward of being Born Again and filled with the Holy Spirit was in the future. It is not the hope of the Messiah that Christians believe in but the fact of a Crucified and Resurrected Messiah. Through this faith the Christian is Born Again as a son of God and receives the Holy Spirit. This was simply not available in the old covenant with Abraham, only the hope of that promise was available. The blood of goats and calves in the old coveant sealed the promise and covered the sins until the reality of the promise would come---Jesus Christ Crucified for the sins of mankind and raised for their justification. The sins were no longer covered but they were totally removed so God can recreate our human spirits and fill us with his Holy Spirit. May Christ fill us with the fullness of the new covenant promises and teach us his will. Emile

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (19908)	8/4/1998 4:19:00 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Respond to of 39621

" So to have the Faith of Abraham, you had to believe in the coming of the Messiah, or the Messiah himself. Abraham did as you can see! So anyone in the Faith of Abraham did not break God's covenant, in fact, they did the opposite, they believed fully and totally, in God's New Covenant, before the New Covenant even existed." Abraham had the hope of the new covenant but could not receive the promises of the new covenant until it was completed. The Apostles had the faith of Abraham and also believed in the hope of the new covenant even as they walked with Jesus , but did not understand or could not appropriate the substance until after the Crucifixion, Resurrection, Ascension and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Like the Apostles before the Resurrection, Abraham had none of these things, only the hope and faith and God counted that hope and faith as righteouness. Abraham simply believed what God told him. He didn't understand the new covenant or believe in the new covenant as you say. The clear promise of a new covenant was not introduced until Ezekiel and Jeremiah. The promise of the new covenant has been implied or hinted at all the way back in Genensis, but it was not clearly defined as putting the laws of God in our hearts and in our minds until Ezekiel and Jeremiah. No one fully understood that God would come among men and take human flesh and become a God-man himself--reamining fully God and fully man. This is the mystery of the Incarnation. No one in the Old Testament understood that this God-man would walk among men and then offer himself as a Sacrifice for the sins of mankind. The Apostles did not even unsderstand until after the REsurrection and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. When God poured out the Holy Spirit, then the Jewish Apostles began to understand and the Old Testament Scriptures were finally opened to them. Without the baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes only through faith in Jesus Christ's accomplised Crucifixion and Resurrection, man cannot understand the Old Testament or the New. ---------------------------------- " Hebrews 8 8: For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. Did those with the Faith of Abraham continue not in God's covenant? To me, this is not logical. It was the Faith of Abraham that saved him. Let's substantiate this by the New Testament; ----------------------------------- God found fault with the old covenant because it was only a shadow of the new and could not cleanse from sin but only cover sins by the blood of animals. God knew that no man could follow all the regulations of the old covenant. The faith of the Old T. saints was counted as righteouness because they fully believed that God was a God of mercy and would redeemed them in time---the new covenant. Even though they had this faith, they could not be Born Again and experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit. According to Jesus, John the Baptist was spiritually the greatest man that ever lived during the old covenant, but the least in the Kingdom of God (under the new covenant) is greater than John the Baptist. John the Baptist even new the pre-Crucified Jesus but was still less than anyone of the sainst under the new covenant. Why is that? Because the new covenant permits the believer to be Born Again and baptised in the Holy Spirit. This was simply not available before the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus. The promises of the new covenant are infinitely greater than the promises of the old. Under the new covenant, Christians also have the blessed hope of the Resurrection and a glorified body. It will remain a hope until the reality arrives. There will be a great difference between the hope of the Resurrection of the body and a glorified body, and the actual receiving of our glorified body. Fianlly, it was always a remnant who believed God in the OT, just as it is always a remanant who believes God in the New. There are many people that call themselves Christian today, but only those with the faith of Abraham can believe in Jesus. Under the old covenant the promise of a new covenant was made to the entire house of Israel and house of Judah. It was available to all, but only the remnant believed. Thus, all Israel shall be saved. Under the new covenant no man can come to God except through faith in the words of God in the New Testament that tells us that Jesus Christ was Crucified and raise for the sins of mankind. In the love of Christ Emile