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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Henry Volquardsen who wrote (20046)	8/7/1998 2:29:00 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Henry, << I would not shorten anyone's opportunity to find salvation by one second.>> Excellent point. This statement makes the most compeling arguement against capital punishment. It is the only reason I sometimes waver on my opinion. Bob

To: Henry Volquardsen who wrote (20046)	8/7/1998 8:39:00 PM
From: John S.	Respond to of 39621

Hello Henry, Bob, Mark & Gregory, Reading through the posts I agree capital punishment or the taking of any life has definite potential for debate. Henry where you state << I do not believe God is telling us that we must accept all law simply because it is the law.>> I agree wholeheartedly. The example with Daniel and the law to worship an idol which he refused is an excellent example in point. However please look again at Romans 13 vs 3 Rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. It is not too difficult to determine the difference between a good ruler or an evil ruler, a good work or an evil work (most times). I admire any peaceful person and I agree that the Lord set the example of loving however he also set another example that showed He was not a pacifist. I know you recall the money changers in the temple and how He drove them out with a whip after overturning their tables. In Luke 22:36 Jesus speaking.."But now, he that hath a purse let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. A sword is obviously a weapon designed for fighting with fatal consequences usually resulting. We are warned that if we live by the sword we shall die by it but Ecclesiastes in chapter 3 specifies a time and season for all things specifically in mind: loving, hating, healing, killing, war and peace. Regarding capital punishment I do not believe that it is a deterrent to prevent others from killing. I do believe that it will deter the one that has already committed murder from ever killing again. Statistically people that have committed premeditated murder upon their release kill again. Violent prisoners that escape from incarceration always commit other violent offences unless captured quickly. Why should society pay for the evil that these people have inflicted and provide opportunity for them to feed upon more innocent blood. Should they hear the gospel? By all means. Charles Wesley is said to have had himself locked in overnight with death row inmates prior to their date with the gallows. In your post to Bob you stated << Christ taught us to judge not lest ye be judged, let he who is without sin cast the first stone...>> There are times in the New Testament where we are allowed to judge and to pass sentence. I Corinthians 5 gives an example where Paul speaks regarding a mans reprobate behaviour...... 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. We are told in Chapter 6 of that book not to bring (I believe) civil matters with each other (Christians) to court but to judge amongst ourselves or even instead to suffer being defrauded. There certainly is a time to judge the actions of others as Christians. The responsibilty of punishment for crimes against society rests upon the God ordained ministers in power as laid out in Romans 13. They are accountable to God for how righteously they judge. There is nothing new under the sun and since Cain men have been murderers and God established a law to deal with that personal crime as dictated to Moses. It remains a personal crime now, what has changed? Who of us would dare to judge God? He gave Joshua instructions to kill without mercy to any in some circumstances. He stated that a murderer should be put to death. Both are found in the Old Testament. Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. I realize I'm repeating this scripture but the terminology deserves reinforcement here. I have no hesitation in condoning capital punishment as I see no change from the circumstances found in Old to New here as far as responsibilty for the judges to protect society. In the love of Gods mercy and His judgment, John