You can believe what you want. Her message is one that will lead to ruin and death.
Hmmmm ruin and death..... how "rational" your translations are....they amaze me !
>>the Christian Coalition would have already taken over the US government and imposed their Thirteen Century ideas, and we are still not out of danger, as we speak an enormous battle is being fought for such control<<
Gimmee a break!!! Simply paranoia fed by the media. You are grossly misled. Free yourself. Think for yourself, instead of regurgitating the fear-mongering with which you are bombarded every day.
For your information: (in reference to news)
1. I do not listen to the so called (by yourself), "media", I do not even watch TV (other than selected movies).
2. I do not read the newspapers as they are complete utter rubbish. (Investor Business Daily excepted), I also read The Economist, Wired Magazine and other sundry magazines, mostly finance, trading and travel related, and from time to time Financial Reports from public companies. oh! and some books, the more pagan the better !!
3. The only news I seek (for the most part) are financial news, primarily related to the US economy and other global issues.
4. I do think for myself, that is the reason I escaped and I was not trapped as many of my friends and family in a country that was completely rapped by dear old politicians, and Catholic bishops, not to mention a late attack by an even more fundamentalist and rabid band of Evangelists, and other sundry wackos that, (to this day), are embroiled in a silly attempt of "indoctrination", similar to the one imposed by the Spanish Inquisition during the sixteenth century).
5. Your assumption that I only "listen" to the "daily bombardment" of late, is way out of line, because a) you can not possibly know since when I hold the ideology I hold, and b) you are the one that repeats, as the good parrot that you are, the messages of the typical religious indoctrinator, who wants to shut-up anyone with different ideas, immediately wanting to appear as the messenger of "love" and the "victim of persecution", yet at the same time, to the untrained eye, you are readying yourself with the big sword to cut the head off the infidel, [in the name of god, of course], while the masses watch in sick admiration once you have achieved your evil task of indoctrination and brain washing.
Where is your tolerance? Do I not have the right to participate in the political process all of a sudden because I believe in Jesus Christ? Am I somehow sinister because I believe in a different mode of conduct?
I told you three times already, I do not give a rat's arse if you want to believe in "Chuchito", the sacred cow, or the alien ship hidden behind a cosmic comet, you want to believe in such nonsense, please be my guest do it with gusto, I only ask that you do not force it to me, or force the children to listen to your beliefs, of course, you can do whatever you want with your own children, if you want them trained as certified zombies, well, hell, that is your choice.
See, you are free to do your Voodoo, just don't force it on others.
By law, there is a designated "wall of separation" between Church and State, established by no less than Mr. Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and others, known as the Founding Fathers of the USA.
Again, do not believe me, read on:
As you will see, the use of reason is not exclusive to Ayn Rand
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The Bible? Here is what our Founding Fathers wrote about Bible-based Christianity:
Thomas Jefferson:
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."
SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,
by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short
Jefferson again:
"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."
More Jefferson:
"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.
Jefferson's word for the Bible? "Dunghill."
John Adams:
"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?"
Also Adams:
"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."
Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:
"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."
Here's Thomas Paine:
"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)."
"Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible)."
"It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible."
"Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance."
And; "The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty."
Finally let's hear from James Madison:
"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."
Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote:
"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
These founding fathers were a reflection of the American population. Having escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the people in the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration of Independence was signed.
Among those who confuse Christianity with the founding of America, the rise of conservative Baptists is one of the more interesting developments. The Baptists believed God's authority came from the people, not the priesthood, and they had been persecuted for this belief. It was they - the Baptists - who were instrumental in securing the separation of church and state. They knew you can not have a "one-way wall" that lets religion into government but that does not let it out. They knew no religion is capable of handling political power without becoming corrupted by it. And, perhaps, they knew it was Christ himself who first proposed the separation of church and state: "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto the Lord that which is the Lord's."
In the last five years the Baptists have been taken over by a fundamentalist faction that insists authority comes from the Bible and that the individual must accept the interpretation of the Bible from a higher authority. These usurpers of the Baptist faith are those who insist they should meddle in the affairs of the government and it is they who insist the government should meddle in the beliefs of individuals.
The price of Liberty is constant vigilance. Religious fundamentalism and zealous patriotism have always been the forces which require the greatest attention.
It is all here: (and more)
postfun.com
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And there is more:
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Thomas Paine
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
From:
The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, pp. 8,9 (Republished 1984, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY)
Thomas Jefferson
The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ leveled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."
From:
Thomas Jefferson, an Intimate History by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453
(1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814.
James Madison
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
From:
The Madisons by Virginia Moore, P. 43 (1979, McGraw-Hill Co. New York, NY) quoting a letter by JM to William Bradford April 1, 1774, and James Madison, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Joseph Gardner, p. 93, (1974, Newsweek, New York, NY) Quoting Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments by JM, June 1785.
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Now understand this, all of the above, while protects ME (and people like me), from you and your ilk (this term you used first, so now it is my turn), from being indoctrinated into your beliefs.
HOWEVER, it does not STOP you from praying, and doing the rest of your voodoo, until you are blue in the face, you can pray in your home, in your church even out in the open, indeed even in places where you are supposed to show respect for others, (such as public schools), and PRAY IN SILENCE....!!!!
WHO CARES ?!!
JUST DON'T SHOVE IT DOWN MY THROAT OR CHILDREN'S THROATS.
Your ideas are intellectually bankrupt. You are guilty of desiring what you fear others are going (going, not have) perpetrate on you.
Oh really ??
Again, your arrogance comes through, intellectually bankrupt... well, and you are so enlightened I have to wear sunglasses when I read your brilliant rubbish !! And..... "guilty" there you go again the religious acid trip of guilt.....
Let me tell you about facts:
Because I like my privacy, and because I do not have to either, I will not offer to send to you, the tapes that a well known organization has in their possession, of clear and loud evidence of what the religious zealots are capable of HAVING DONE (not they are going to do), to me, in the manner in which they dealt with me, simply because I publicly expressed my opposition to their ideas of indoctrination, and "education".
The fact that I will not share with you, my "virtual enemy", in this public forum, the evidence of events that HAVE ALREADY HAPPEN do not CHANGE THE FACTS.
This organization has reviewed the tapes and the entire evidence, and are willing to fund legal action against these friendly bastards, but they can not do it unless they have my go ahead. I will not give them the green light.
Why ?
Because:
a) I am not the martyr type, b) I was not brought up in the "sue-r" environment of the American Legal System, c) the possible impact on the affected parties does not justify getting revenge on this idiots, you see I actually follow my ethical principles, opposed to other hypocrites that all they do is preach as mindless parrots, d) it is my belief that legal action is exactly what the are looking for, you see, they have no consideration as to the possible "side effects" on other parties, all they want is the achievement of their irrational objective.... regardless of the cost.
Your friendly "love messenger" bastards are actually PROUD of their deeds.... why do I say that? Well take a wild guess, as to who TAPED the session, and willingly gave me a copy. They did!
I could show you other documentation proving the moral and ethical behavior your friendly local zealots are capable of HAVING DONE TO ME. (not as you intend to portray it that "I dream that they are going to do"),
When I tell you that the damned donkey is blue is because I have the paint and brush in my hand....
So please do not call me paranoid. I KNOW WHAT THE HELL I AM TALKING ABOUT.
I support your right to believe all of this stuff you have spoken, but will continue to resist the establishment of such principles as you espouse in any participation that I have in government as it my right.
Oh, how kind and nice of you, a well-used line by demagogues. The reality is you do not support such right you simply have to do it because you have no choice, as such is the law. Indeed the mere expression as made above, proves to me that if it was up to you, anything or anybody that expresses any different than your own views, you would "delete" as necessary.
Read: "...but I will continue to resist the establishment of such principles as you espouse in any participation that I have in governments it is my right...."
All I spouse is the "FREEDOM TO CHOOSE, NOT THE IMPOSITION OF A SPECIFIC BELIEF"
Your stated and clear opposition to what I spouse, would in effect FORCE ME TO FOLLOW YOUR BELIEFS" i.e. against the First Amendment of the US Constitution.
As I said earlier, the Christian Coalition is in the process of eliminating the Bill of Rights. Am I concerned, of course I am, but I am betting on the side of reason, and soon said more evil empire will be debunked and powerless.
Thanks but no thanks, I do not need your [kind] "support for my rights".
I wish you well, but will leave it at that.
Keep your well wishing to yourself, I do not believe you, as usual your kind can not disguise the rabid teeth, a true pit bull in wolf's clothing.
You are one with this group who defines rational as simply people who ascribe to a certain way of thinking (Rand and her ilk). If it makes you feel good to think that everyone else is irrational -- so be it. It's a comfortable ignorance, but it is an ignorance nonetheless.
You are either ignorant as you do not know how understand what you read, or, you are indeed willfully misrepresenting and misconstruing what I write.
By definition, I can not "belong" to a group, that is what your type does.
I am a free thinker, yes I read Ayn Rand and others, but I do not become "part of any group", (as simply I do not belong to any). Once more, I could not care less if you choose to be irrational or not, that is YOUR business. Facts are facts, your attempt to push your beliefs on others, for starters reduces the value of the same, and as I have already pointed to the evidence of the nature of those beliefs, facts show that they are... well, IRRATIONAL.
Since you need more proof, here is more, read on:
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The "Age of Faith", the 1000 years of church domination of Europe was marked by a very low standard of living for most people. They lived in filth, sanitation being considered too sensual to be pious. The average life expectancy was only 25 or 30, and Bubonic Plague, Typhus and a host of other diseases regularly decimated hundreds of thousands of people. In the winter of 1349, 120,000 people died in England, one out of every three. Continental Europe had similar death counts during the 1300's, recurring waves of plague sweeping the countrysides, whole towns dying in days. The church encouraged ignorance: "Saint Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153), the most influential Christian of his time, bore a deep distrust of the intellect and declared that the pursuit of knowledge, unless sanctified by a holy mission, was a pagan act and therefore vile."
"The distinction between devotion and superstition has always been unclear, but there was little blurring here. Although they called themselves Christians, medieval Europeans were ignorant of the gospels. The Bible only existed in a language they could not read. The mumbled incantations at Mass were meaningless to them. They believed in sorcery, witchcraft, hobgoblins, werewolves, amulets, and black magic, and were thus indistinguishable from pagans. Scholars as eminent as Erasmus and Sir Thomas More accepted the existence of witchcraft. The church encouraged superstitions, recommended trust in faith healers, and spread tales of satyrs, incubi, sirens, cyclops, tritons, and giants, explaining they were all manifestations of Satan."
"The Pied Piper of Hamelin was a real man, but there was nothing enchanting about him. Quite the opposite: he was horrible, a psychopath and pederast who, on June 20, 1484, spirited away 130 children in the Saxon village of Hammel and used them in unspeakable ways. Accounts of the aftermath vary. According to some, his victims were never seen again; others told of dismembered little bodies found scattered in the forest underbrush or festooning the branches of trees."
The depravities of the Catholic church bred the Protestants, and the invention of mass printing during the same time brought a dawn of knowledge, a re-nascence of thinking that had been put down 1000 years before. The Protestants stripped the Christian philosophy of all of the colorful Catholic trappings, bringing us the sanitized, cinder-block Baptist church of today, more prudish, still scorning intellect and learning.
dimensional.com
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and more:
However, there is a warning :
WARNING: This section contains very disturbing images and descriptions, possibly apt to cause nightmares and depression. Please go back now if you aren't feeling really strong. This is not a joke.
(These pages are NOT meant to glorify torture. Torture is abominable; perhaps the vilest of all crimes. The point here is to show the dangers of rampant fundamentalism of ANY stripe- and to reveal parts of history censored out by pious, hypocritical, corporate religionists.)
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A common early part of the torture was the 'strappado'- the method used on Savonarola.
"In 1497 Girolamo Savonarola was put to the tratti di fune or strappado, which consisted of tying the prisoner's hands behind his back, hoisting him by the wrists, letting him drop for several feet and stopping him with a jerk before he reached the ground. This proving ineffectual, weights were attached to Savonarola's feet and he was dropped fourteen times." Weeks later, he was tied to a stake and burned alive in the Plaza della Signoria.... 1
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And a sample of the "good book":
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Isaiah 34:
"6:The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.
"7: And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
more:
dimensional.com
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"I believe there is a limit beyond which free speech cannot go, but it's a limit that's very seldom mentioned. It's the point where free speech begins to collide with the right to privacy. I don't think there are any other conditions to free speech. I've got a right to say and believe anything I please, but I haven't got a right to press
it on anybody else. .... Nobody's got a right to be a nuisance to his neighbors."
So no thanks, take your religion elsewhere, this is a thread in which the discussion topic is :
"The Meaning of Life"
Life is for the living and death is for... well... the dead !
Have a nice life.
-¨o
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