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Politics : Clinton's Scandals: Is this corruption the worst ever? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Doughboy who wrote (1914)8/19/1998 3:43:00 AM
From: DJRoss  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 13994
 
If such a questioning session were to provide the results you state, then maybe it would be better to cleanse the "Temple" so to speak. Get rid of all of them and start over.

Personally I don't think Newts silence is motivated by " I hope they don't investigate me" attitude, but from a political standpoint, he gains by standing back and not making any hasty comments. The Democratic party is already doing enough damage as certain key figures are dropping support of the president(even requesting him to step down or suffer impeachment). When the report is in, they can act. Until then it is just speculation.

As far as these other presidents are concerned, much of what you say is also speculation. It makes for bestsellers(pseudoresearch investigative biographical junk) and for Hollywood spinflicks that entice the public. Unless you have some signed confessions by FDR and or Eisenhower,etc it is as the legal system dictates, hearsay.

Now get a president on the witness stand, and have him tell the world that he has had an "inappropriate" relationship with one of his former employees, and that he "misled" the public, then you have a different situation.

As far as President Clintons infidelity, well that is his choice to make. If he feels that is what makes him happy, then he has to deal with the life it creates for him.

If what you say is true about the sexual promiscuity of our elected officials, then it is a sad statement about what we have become as a nation.

Yes we are all free to choose the kind of sexual lifestyle we wish to live, but are we free from the consequences. Personally I feel that the single most important entity in our nation. That which gives it its strength is the family. No other unit has more importance for our country.

Story: " A small boy waited all day eagerly for his father to come home from work. The father upon arriving home was greeted cheerfully by his son. The boy wished for his father to spend some time with him. Play catch,horse around,etc. The father really didn't want to be bothered by his son. He just wanted to sit down and read the newspaper. His son was dissappointed since he was really counting on being with his father. The boy persisted in his request, and the father became irritated, which only made the boy more dissappointed. Inside of the newspaper, there was and ad for world travel, and a large map of the world was in the ad. The father took a pair of scissors and cut up the world map into many small pieces. He gave his son some tape and said, "Here is a puzzle, when you have put it together, then I will play with you. OK?" Thinking that his son would be busy for at least a couple of hours, the man went back to reading his newspaper. The boy sat at the dining room table, and eagerly went to work on the puzzle. Fifteen minutes later the boy came back to his father with the completed puzzle in his hand. The boy had a big smile on his face as he showed his father his accomplishment. The father was extremely surprised that the boy had finished so quickly, since he had cut the picture up in so many pieces. He asked his son, "How did you finish this puzzle of the world so quickly?" The boy smiled again and said "On the back of the map of the world, there was a picture of a family. I put the family back together, and the world just fell into place."

I think what we need to focus on as Americans is that if we want to have a strong nation, we need to have a strong family. Strong families do not exist where there is pride,selfishness,dishonesty, and lack of character. Any time we give into our base wants and desires, we are setting the stage for repeating that same behavior. Why? Because it is easier. The easy way will never strengthen the bonds of the family. Without that, you have a nation divided.

Dug



To: Doughboy who wrote (1914)8/19/1998 7:01:00 AM
From: Zoltan!  Respond to of 13994
 
And Why His Legal
Jeopardy Will Only Grow


By BRADFORD A. BERENSON

President Clinton told the nation on Monday night that it is time to "move
on" and put an end to the investigation of his affair with Monica Lewinsky.
Unfortunately for Mr. Clinton, the investigation cannot be ended.
Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr is legally obligated to continue the
inquiry until he either issues a report to Congress or concludes that he does
not have, in the words of the statute that controls his investigation,
"substantial and credible information . . . that may constitute grounds for an
impeachment."

In that regard, the president's grand jury testimony
may have made matters worse, rather than better.
Impeachment is a political process once it begins,
but the decision about whether to begin the process
will depend in large measure on matters of law. In
the wake of his testimony, Mr. Clinton may be more
vulnerable than ever to potentially serious allegations
of criminal misconduct in the Paula Jones case.
Depending on Mr. Starr's evidence, the president
may also have paved the way for Mr. Starr to
include in a report to Congress the most damaging
allegation of all: that Mr. Clinton committed perjury
before the grand jury.

On the question of perjury in the Jones case, the president appears to have
tried to thread the needle, admitting a sexual relationship with Ms. Lewinsky
but contending that his denial of that relationship in the deposition was, as he
said Monday night, "legally accurate." The problem is that the needle has no
eye. Recent spin-talk has suggested that the Jones definition of sexual
relations is open to an interpretation that would not cover receiving oral sex.
But this is nonsense.

Under that definition, "a person engages in 'sexual relations' when the
person knowingly engages in or causes contact with the genitalia . . . of any
person with an intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person."
"Any person" obviously includes the president, and the definition makes no
distinction based on specific sex acts or an individual's active or passive role
in them. If Ms. Lewinsky had sexual relations with Mr. Clinton, he--need
we really say it?--had sexual relations with her.

Thus, the president cannot plausibly claim that his lie under oath in the Jones
suit was unintentional or made in good faith. His only available defense
would be to argue that the lie was immaterial. But this argument does not
exonerate him of moral culpability for lying under oath. What's more, the
law on this point is unsettled; the most compelling view is that the materiality
of a false statement under oath is judged as of the time the statement is
made, rather than in light of subsequent events (such as Judge Susan
Webber Wright's decision to exclude Lewinsky evidence from the Jones
suit or her later dismissal of the suit).

Mr. Clinton made other questionable statements under oath in the Jones
case, and Mr. Starr's prosecutors may have substantial evidence that these
statements were false. Mr. Clinton's admission of an "inappropriate"
relationship with Ms. Lewinsky makes it almost certain that his claimed
failure to remember ever being alone with her, except perhaps on one or
two occasions when she brought him a pizza or papers to sign, was a lie.
And the president gave answers under oath concerning his discussions with
Ms. Lewinsky about her subpoena, the nature of his meeting with her
around Christmas 1997, and his encounter with Kathleen Willey, all of
which we now know have been contradicted by the testimony of those
women.

The safest bet in this entire matter is that Mr. Starr has considerably more
evidence than any of us are yet aware of. But even if he had no other
evidence, these conflicts in testimony alone, particularly in light of the
president's now-admitted lie on a closely related subject, would likely be
sufficient to merit inclusion in an impeachment report. In such a report, Mr.
Starr must include any and all allegations of criminality that are supported by
"substantial and credible information"; he does not need to prove beyond a
reasonable doubt that Mr. Clinton committed a crime.

Then there is the question of obstruction of justice and subornation of
perjury in the Jones suit. When Ms. Jones's lawyers first began questioning
the president about Monica Lewinsky, Mr. Clinton's lawyer Robert Bennett
vigorously objected, treating Judge Wright to an extended discussion of
how Ms. Lewinsky's affidavit denying any sexual relationship with the
president ought to preclude an inquiry into this subject. Mr. Clinton sat mute
during this exchange and deliberately allowed his lawyer to urge upon the
court evidence the president knew to be false and fraudulent. Mr. Clinton's
evident lack of surprise, coupled with his parallel denials under oath, tend to
support the inference that he and Ms. Lewinsky were indeed operating in
tandem.

In addition, now that Mr. Clinton has in effect admitted lying under oath, he
is going to have a difficult time convincing Mr. Starr that there was an
innocent explanation for seeking the return of the gifts he gave Ms.
Lewinsky or for the assistance his powerful friends gave her in her job
search. What could have motivated these contemporaneous actions other
than an effort to conceal the relationship? Friendship might explain job help,
but it certainly would not explain taking back gifts. And whatever
explanation of the gifts the president offers is going to have to square with
the accounts of both Ms. Lewinsky and of his private secretary, Betty
Currie. Otherwise, the contradiction in testimony would surely qualify as
"substantial and credible information" that would have to be included in an
impeachment report.

Mr. Starr also has testimony from Ms. Lewinsky and Ms. Currie about
conversations they had with the president in which he reportedly coached
them, albeit indirectly, about what he wanted them to say if they were
questioned. This, too, could form the basis for a finding in the report of
witness tampering or obstruction of justice, even in the absence of other
evidence. The president might deny these conversations occurred or he
might explain them differently, but it is unlikely he would win any credibility
contests.

This highlights the single most important respect in which the president's
testimony may have exacerbated his legal and political problems. A strategy
of full confession and apology might have made his conduct in the Jones
case even harder to defend than it now is, but at least it would have
confined his problems to whatever occurred before this week. The strategy
Mr. Clinton followed instead--admitting as little as possible, to the point of
refusing even to admit that his sexual relationship with Ms. Lewinsky
rendered his testimony in the Jones suit false--means that the prosecutors
may have ample basis to make a case that the president committed perjury
or obstruction of justice in the grand jury proceeding. The president's
reported refusal to answer certain questions without adequate legal
justification could also represent an effort to impede the due administration
of justice.

Mr. Starr may, therefore, end up issuing a report to the House alleging not
only that the president personally committed perjury, witness tampering and
obstruction of justice in the Jones suit, but also that coverup efforts by the
president himself continued through the grand jury investigation, even after
he was fully aware of the consequences.

Such a report, if backed up by persuasive evidence, would be politically
devastating. And no matter what happens as a result of the president's
political jeopardy, he will remain in legal jeopardy even after he leaves
office. For the statute of limitations will not have expired by Jan. 20, 2001.
Far from putting the Lewinsky affair behind him, the president's testimony
may simply have aided its transition into a new and even more damaging
phase.

interactive.wsj.com



To: Doughboy who wrote (1914)8/19/1998 8:14:00 AM
From: jlallen  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 13994
 
So? That makes it acceptable. No way. JLA



To: Doughboy who wrote (1914)8/19/1998 12:16:00 PM
From: Jim B  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 13994
 
the point is NOT whether or not people are being hypocritical... I too have problems in my life and things I'm not proud of... but I certainly would NOT endorse such actions claiming them to be "okay because everyone else does it"... I don't claim to be holier than thou either but I do believe in the Bible and believe that one should do their best to follow Him.

Clinton is in a position of authority and a VERY public figure.. people should know that there are CONSEQUENCES for actions of these kinds... and everyone will eventually have to deal with them... even me.. for there is someone Higher than thou and I and one day we'll answer to Him..

just stating my beliefs... at least I have some and a Book (Bible) verifiable by hundreds of INDEPENDENT sources dating hundreds and thousands of years old from places all over the world which have never been historically disproved...

take that against some other religion like Mormanism or Buddhism which each have about 12 different written sources and most of them from all the same time period and persons..

I just think one would have to be truly ignorant to think that the excuse, "Everyone does it and to try and cast judgement or discipline from people who have probably done the same thing is hypocritical is dumb"..

we all do bad things... and even police officers and judges have done bad things... the law is set forth to discipline those people... it is a reflection upon them... NOT a reflection upon the person whose job is to carry out the disclipine..

you don't judge the police officer who arrests someone for stealing... even though he may or may not have done the same thing just the night before... if the police officer is caught.. he's to be disciplined by the law equally..

jim