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Politics : Clinton's Scandals: Is this corruption the worst ever? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Mo Chips who wrote (2158)	8/19/1998 10:13:00 PM
From: Zoltan!	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 13994

Thanks for that most remarkable distillation of liberal/left madness. One day reality may sneak up on you and jolt you into something approximating the truth. Until then, enjoy the spectacular denouement of the most corrupt and yet ineffectual President in US history.

To: Mo Chips who wrote (2158)	8/19/1998 10:57:00 PM
From: anyer	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 13994

Mo, Years of Republican overspending caused the deficit. Wrong! The government has taken in more money every year under both Dem and Rep presidents. The deficit was caused by the failure to control entitlements which an attempt was only made after the 1994 election when a Rep congress was elected for the first time in 40 years. You don't remember or choose not to remember how Reagans and Bushes budgets were declared Dead on Arrival by the Dem congress. My fault with Reagan and Bush was they always signed the budgets and never vetoed the package to increase entitlements because they wanted to increase defense spending. This was the faustian bargain or so it seemed at the time. In reality, what has happened is that the tax cuts in the early 1980's fostered capital formation and risk taking that led to the creation of the MSFT,INTC etc. type companies which has led to the restructuring of almost all our industries. The republicans lucked out early in the Reagan years and got control of the senate which is the only reason there was any leverage with the Dem house to cut taxes. It is this restructuring that has led to the phenomenal change in our society; not Clinton. In fact the only thing left to restructure is government itself. This can be accomplished with a flat tax; because if we limit their choices they will have to restructure to create new programs since they will have to terminate non performing programs to free up the money. Ask yourself who in society gets paid these days for being inefficient and you will see it is the government. They get paid for delays. If a doctor took 3 months to do an operation and charged by the stitch you would be furious. Or if a mechanic kept your car 6 months. Yet we put up with delays, motions, etc. so that a child custodycase, divorce, employment disputes cost way too much. Where I live it takes 2 years to get a divorce. As the chairman of Real Networks told congress in the Microsoft hearings[ irregardless of the merit of the case], by the time you guys act if you do my company could be destroyed. The government will have to be restructured next and we will all be better off. The only people who will not be are those who are Takers from others. Giving Clinton credit is like giving credit to Weyerhauser for cutting the logs in a forest. The real engine has been the capital formation by capital gains tax cuts which allowed the start ups in Silicon Valley. That and deregulation of telecommunications, etc. Let's give credit to Clinton for signing welfare reform; which was a Hobson's choice for him. Would never have been passed in a Dem house of Rep. We are a very talented nation; no one person is indispensable. I say make you Prez now if you are honest. Then you could take credit with the congress for legal reform which Clinton and the Dems are resisting but which will eventually come. Anyer

To: Mo Chips who wrote (2158)	8/20/1998 9:09:00 AM
From: j_b	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 13994

My turn - about the IRA bombing - I never said it was Clinton's fault, but he had taken credit for bringing peace to that area, when in fact, there was no peace. << It is a mess he inherited from years of republican imperialism.>> Would those be the prior 40 years of Democrat controlled Congress, or the more recent 6 years of Republican controlled Congress? <<Republican overspending from '80 to '92 are the real culprit here. Remember, Clinton is the first president in what, over 20 years to sign a balanced budget>> See above response. Remember, the deficit has only dropped since the Republicans have been in Congress. The balanced budget was part of their Contract for America, and Clinton fought it every step of the way, calling irresponsible and impossible. The overspending was under the prior Democrat controlled Congresses. Some of your other points regarding the economy are also answered here. To blame the Republicans for what happened under a Democrat controlled Congress is very unfair. To give credit to a Democrat President for bills passed by a Republican Congress is equally unfair. As to education being a local issue, I agree. That's why I feel somewhat betrayed that the Republicans have not followed through on their promises to return control of the system to the local levels. They have tried to introduce some choice to the system to try to bring up the standards, but we'll see where that goes, especially since Clinton is fighting it. I agree that Clinton (Mrs. Clinton) should get credit for making health care a front-burner issue. I may disagree with what the Clintons want to do with health care, but it absolutely must be discussed. Something we discussed last night made me reconsider my position on forgiveness and Clinton. What would it take for me to forgive him? A REAL acceptance of responsibility, a real apology and a promise to concentrate on the nations business, as well as to keep straight in the future. I don't want him to resign, and I don't want him impeached. I want him to really understand that he's no better (or worse) than anyone else, and he's there to do a job. I had a dream (sounds like a great start for a speech <g>) where Clinton committed suicide. That didn't exactly make me feel good about myself or what we are currently going through as a nation. I don't feel Clinton is being persecuted, since he has the ability to make this right at any time, but I no longer want his hide. It wouldn't look good on my wall, anyway.