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Pastimes : Don't Ask Rambi -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Rambi who wrote (12054)	8/21/1998 8:47:00 PM
From: jpmac	Respond to of 71178

For the young cynic, maybe if the idea of honor, patriotism and the like don't do it for him, you could remind him of Washington, Grant, Eisenhower and the like that came home garbed in such glory that they ended up prez. Backdoor, but it might give him something to think about. <g> So the new Cage movie was a disappointment? I'm waiting for the Truman Show to come on the dish and considering relocating myself to some place civilized where I go out out for entertainment. And don't have to drive 25 miles for a beer. I'm too tired to drive right now, so alcohol, sadly, is not involved. But I'm pumping in some caffiene, so maybe later.

To: Rambi who wrote (12054)	8/21/1998 9:12:00 PM
From: Gauguin	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 71178

"'People fought for us. So we need to fight for the next generation.'" Delicate subject. The word "two" sticks in my head. Two ways of viewing, two ways of seeing; so much of this. One: Heroic Quest. Two: Virulent Ignorance. It's that way with almost every discussion of war. It might be too personal to discuss. I know I thought the way they are saying when I was their age. Vietnam was running amuck, I read about it everyday in detail and it lasted long enough for me to be draftable. I grew up reading everything about the heroism of The Pacific and Europe; yet knew little about the pathetic chaos of "The Great War". One of the phrases I remember effecting me was pointed out by a supporter of democracy in the South (Vietnam). It went something like "Fighting for freedom is an honor. Fighting for another's freedom is divine." Weird to think of now. That was essentially much of what we did in Europe in WW II, but in Vietnam the whole situation was so so so much different. So many lies about who people actually were. No one knew; only thought they knew. My greater family was really divided along these lines; some of them knew a great deal of the history of the area and really enlightened me that it was not so simple. They were also the first people I knew who opposed the conflict. I was surprised. I didn't know til two years later that my mother opposed it completely. She kept her view to herself, and she is very comfortable speaking out. I never knew. And it was all around us. I also assumed my father was for it. Turned out he had his doubts too. It was a very complicated time. Not like WW II or history as I'd read it at all. No Battle of Britain; no Midway. The leaders of the second war could be trusted. In intent, anyway. There wasn't an honest man involved with Vietnam stateside. Maybe Wayne Morse or a couple of oddballs. There was a horrific undertone of evil at that level. When you're killing people, ignorance and lies aren't much of an excuse. Like I said, maybe too personal to discuss. I respect the people who were there. Most of them. Both sides. I hate war too. I think people do it "because", much of the time. It's OK I suppose; more parking spaces left for me. Being wrong about it is not something you want to wake up to. The ones who perpetrate rarely do. I picture them in hell, as my retaliation.