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Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: stan s. who wrote (795)	8/26/1998 1:07:00 PM
From: j_b	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

<< By itself a reason for removal from office? Of course not.>> This really is the crux of the matter, isn't it. Impeachment has nothing to do with legalities, and everything to do with politics. That was the purpose of impeachment when it was put into the Constitution, and will always be its purpose. We have a judicial system to handle legalities. What is a good reason to remove someone from office? We've ousted Senators for sexual misconduct, we've ousted Congressmen for ethical issues, and we've ousted a President for lying and obstruction of justice. Reagan either lied or was mislead by subordinates, but went out of his way to cooperate with the investigation. Other Presidents have been guilty of sexual misconduct, but haven't covered it up. All Congressmen and most Presidents have been guilty of variable ethics. The difference is that Clinton is thought by many to guilty of all three. Were his lapses as serious as those of others (were his lies as detrimental to the country, were his affairs interfering with the conduct of duties, do they have anything to do with his job)? Did Packwood's predatory practices affect his legislative duties? Did anyone care if they did? The question you asked unfortunately is not relavent. If the Republicans think they can use this to increase their power at the expense of the Democrats, it will considered sufficient reason to oust Clinton, just as the Democrats pursued Nixon and Packwood, but left Reagan alone - they knew he was too popular to go after. If the Democrats think Clinton has become a liability in the great power struggle, they'll drop him like a hot rock. If they think the public will allow Clinton to stay, the Dems will support him, even if they have to preface everything with "we don't like what he did, but...." The only good reason for ousting a President is because you don't want him there and you think you can get away with forcing him out. Everything else is just rationalizing.

To: stan s. who wrote (795)	8/27/1998 12:32:00 AM
From: Dwight E. Karlsen	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

Like it or not.....grey areas exist and rational people learn to deal with them. If Starr's reports brings proof of crimes more substantive than those enumerated above, then kick him out...if and until....these "crimes" don't suffice. Stan, thanks for noticing; I did attempt to construct my reasoning in a step by step fashion. Indeed what it boils down to is whether or not BC is fit for continuing in the position of President. Granted that President's including Bill Clinton are granted MANY benefits of the doubt - when it comes to the Pres, people are generally willing to "let bygones be bygones". Indeed, "kiss it", "Monica, let's keep this between you and me", "I didn't have an affair with her [Gennifer Flowers]" - Hey: BC has gotten away with those things. The judge threw the Paula suit out. The public yawned about Gennifer. But Monica didn't keep it between her and Bill. In fact, so many people knew about it besides Linda Tripp that the reason Monica was moved to the Pentagon to take phone messages was because so many people in the WH were "in the know" about it. I'm not saying everyone knew about it - but Monica was telling Tripp about it while being recorded after both of them got moved to the Pentagon. And the public yawned about 1,000 FBI files found in the WH basement: "A bureaucratic snafu, said the Pres and his WH co-conspirators". Yup. Interesting that a whole bunch of the files were files on prominent Republicans. Another yawn. BC fired over 100 US attorney generals for no reason when he first took office. Yawn. HRC fired the entire WH travel office staff for no reason except a concocted story of false charges against Billy Dale. The Pres and his co-conspirators then moved in "his boys" from Arkansas to do the travel stuff. Yawn. When Clinton's personal attorney allegedly committed suicide, the Clinton WH barred access to Vince Foster's WH office to high ranking Justice Dept officials, while WH employees witnessed other WH employees carrying out "armloads" of files from Vince Foster's office. Yawn. All the above incidents did not happen in a vacuum. They "slipped by" because the WH, backed by statements from BC through his spokespersons like Mike McCurry, has *lied again and again and again. That means repeatedly and without a shred of conscience, lied.* Billy Dale is embezzeling money. "Lie" We don't know who hired Craig Livingstone. "Lie" We accidently ordered those 800-1000 FBI files. "probable Lie" Yes, we think Monica is suffering from delusions. "Lie" Our Health Care Task Force members do comply with the law, but we're still not voluntarily releasing the names of the members. "Lie" Kathleen Willey was only talked to briefly. That's it, nothing more. The President did not kiss her mouth, fondle her breasts, and take her hand and place it on his genitals. "probable lie". On some of those items, you could very well say that it was never proved that he lied. True. That's because BC has been given chance after chance after chance, and the public has forgiven and forgotten time after time after time. But now the President has gone too far. He willfully told a lie to a duly authorized Federal court, Plus got his entire administration to back the lie, Plus stabbed his finger at me and you and commanded us to believe him. I for one have had quite enough. I could care less how many women he as had affairs with, but I cannot stomach his lying. Americans have been badly abused by this man, and I just pray that they wake up and begin again to care for their country.