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To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (28596)	8/30/1998 9:41:00 AM
From: wolfdog2	Respond to of 95453

OT--Israel Emile, your misrepresentation of the State of Israel is astounding. First, it may come as a surprise to you but the Palestinians have not lived in what was Palestine for 2000 years. Following the Roman exile of the Jews, the land was virtually barren and useless. When the Jews returned to Palestine just about 100 years ago, they drained the swamps and began the difficult job of reclaiming the dessert. The official Arab policy at the time, by the way, was that only Arabs had the right to live in Palestine. Fortunately for the Jews it was not the local Arabs, but the Turks and later the British who controlled the country. The impetus for the creation of the State of Israel was the destruction of European Jewry by the Germans and in many cases their Eastern European allies. . It may come as a shock to you as well to learn that there were few if any European countries where Jews could live in peace and safety even prior to WWII. Israel was established to enable Jews to have a place where they could live without persecution In Israel, there is a sizable Arab population and a small Christian minority. Both groups are granted full religious freedom. I challenge you to name one Arab state that grants Christians or Jews complete religious freedom. It is not and has not ever been the policy of the Israeli Government to ethnically cleanse Israel of other groups. Your accusation is scurrilous and unfounded. Lastly, you are also probably unaware that Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East. There is no qualification that members of the Knesset (the Israeli parliament) be Jewish. In fact there are Arab members of the Knesset. Whether there are Christian members I'm not sure, but there is certainly no bar to Christians being elected to serve in the Knesset.

To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (28596)	8/30/1998 11:45:00 AM
From: SliderOnTheBlack	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 95453

Signs of the Apocolypse ????? Imho - never discuss politics, religion or Notre Dame Football on the Internet... <VBG> ..eom. - my shortest post ever ?

To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (28596)	8/31/1998 2:39:00 PM
From: Douglas V. Fant	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 95453

Emile, While I do not defend Israel, I point out that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Also unlike many of the adjacent Arabic Countries (except Lebanon and Palestine), Israel does not have official laws on the books sanctioning discrimination against minorities, in this case the Druze, the Bahai, the Christians, Jews, etc. You call it a warped foreign policy, but we (the US) cannot openly ally ourselves with systems that discriminate on those bases since the Civil Rights law of 1964 is now one of our guiding legal principles. Also let's be realistic- the Israeli/Palestininan dispute is a "tempest in a teapot". There are much bigger geopolitical issues brewing in the Region. See below. Also we (the US) IMO have worked hard to support a just an equitable resolution of the Israel/Palestine dispute, pressuring Israel for concessions on numerous points, many of the concessions which Israel has made. Also we (the US) have many friends and allies in the Islamic World. Turkey is the biggest example, although my Arabic friends may not like my saying that, and then Saudi Arabia, Egypt, many Gulf States, and then Kazakhstan is maneuvering to position itself in Central Asia as as our ally IMO (well K-stan is actually 40% Muslim/40% Christian/ and 20% "who gives a damn" but I'll count it). The biggest problem in the Middle East is not Palestine, nor religious issues- but water. Population growth in the Middle East has severely stretched water resources. While Turkey and Egypt have introduced family planning, there is still much to do such as educating women and freeing them to participate in the workforce (raises GNP and everyone's lifestyle, and also causes birthrates to drop). And what's worse, non-Arabic Countries control the major water tributaries into the Arabic Middle East- Turkey controls the Tigris and Euphrates, while the Africans in the Southern Sudan (my guess is that they will secede from the northern Arabic portion of the Country and form their own country), Uganda, Ehiopia, and Eritrea control the headwaters of the Nile. So IMO the Arabs of the Middle East are not completely in control of their own destiny, but must depend upon the friendship and largesse of Non-Arabic Countries, quite frankly none of which enjoy good relations with the Arabs generally. (And why do you believe that Turkey sticks so close to the US, helped us in the Gulf War, and enjoys access to our latest weaponry? Because their strategic planners are very far sighted, for one thing, and perhaps maybe also because Turkey is so ethnically diverse, that the Turks are quite comfortable in living in a world where everyone is "not like them"). So I "stick my neck out" and predict another Middle eastern war over the next ten years. But this war will not be over religion or the US/Israel/Palestine, but over water rights....But I agree with you that Palestianian claims to sovereignty and some realistic territory to exercise that sovereignty needs be recognized. And oil prices will rise... Sincerely, Doug F.