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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JF Quinnelly who wrote (24734)	8/30/1998 9:32:00 PM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Isn't it possible that these variations in doctrine had existed all along, but were only noticed when Christians were allowed to come out of the closet? I find it hard to believe that a unified doctrine could exist in a religion that was necessarily confined to underground cells with little communication. I suppose I should take your word for it, as it isn't really a topic of powerful interest to me. Most of what I know comes from remembered shreds of dinnertable conversation - my mother is a retired professor of medieval studies, and knows more about the early church then any rational person would want to. I suppose I should e-mail her and ask her to drop in on the thread, but I've argued sufficiently with her already. I do know enough of history to know that what was actually recorded of these conclaves often bears little relation to what was actually discussed. The same is probably true today. Could it have been what diplomats call "a full and frank exchange of views" - meaning a screaming argument? Steve

To: JF Quinnelly who wrote (24734)	9/5/1998 11:02:00 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Freddy, it did take centuries to work out fundamental Christian doctrine. In fact, Christianity is still quite diverse, with different factions of the church in fundamental disagreement about all sorts of issues! The first Christians were not even Christians; they were Jews, as was Jesus. It took several centuries for people who were struck by Jesus' message to teach and pass along the message, and gather more adherents. During those centuries, factions fought bitterly, the sect within Judaism which followed Jesus broke away bitterly, and there was a lot of carnage, really. Edicts of Toleration? That's sort of funny!! Everyone was fighting, slaying the Gnostic Christians and arguing about almost everything Jesus said, trying to decide which gospels were appropriate to include in the growing body of writings about Christ, etc. These scholars are discussing Gnosticism, the "wildly diverse" early Christian beliefs, and the archaeological finds at Nag Hammadi. Do you disagree with all of this, or just part of it? How is your information more accurate than this body of scholarship? pbs.org

To: JF Quinnelly who wrote (24734)	9/5/1998 11:18:00 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

<<Christianity didn't become the State Religion of Rome under Constantine. His wife was a Christian and he may have been one. What he did is sign the third of a series of Edicts of Toleration. Christianity became the State Religion several emperors later, and Christian Rome lasted as long as Rome did: about 50 more years.>> Freddy, can you explain the significance of your statement? Are you splitting hairs, or what? I don't think Constantine was probably even a Christian himself, but that does not seem to have stood in the way of Christianity becoming the state religion during the fourth century. Are we splitting hairs on the term "state religion" as well? This is a very interesting part of the PBS Frontline series, discussing how Constantine persecuted the Gnostic Christians, and all sorts of things with which you seem to disagree, including all the divisions and divisiveness within early Christianity. And of course one of my favorite points is covered in this essay, as it mentions that as soon as Rome became Christian, the Christians started killing everyone who was not Christian? Why am I not surprised?! pbs.org