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To: James Strauss who wrote (20022)9/5/1998 10:53:00 PM
From: James Strauss  Respond to of 50167
 
Interesting Reading...

Jim

Fiend Commentary
================

Defining a Bear Market: Part II

There are three stages of sentiment during a bear market: denial, hope, and
despair.

Denial:

In this stage, the investment glass is perceived to be half full by the
Bulls. Sure some liquid has escaped, but it is still half full!

This was the stage that we were in a few weeks ago before the Dow really
began to get hammered. Bullish analysts see the declines as "healthy"
and an excellent "buying opportunity" for investors who are not already
fully invested.

Despite the stock market's extreme overvaluation and signs that it is
running into difficulty, the Bulls still see "Blue Skies" and further
gains in the near future.

The media describes the stock market decline as profit taking or a
"breather." There isn't much concern about further declines so there
isn't much focus on stressing the need for investors to stay in the
market.

We are almost certainly past this stage now that the most major averages
have dropped 20% or more.

Hope:

In this stage, the investment glass begins to look more than half empty
but the Bulls still insist that it is at least a quarter full.

It is generally acknowledged that stock prices have fallen more than they
would have believed possible but their basic Pollyanna view has not been
changed. Stocks are now perceived to be undervalued and the possibility
that they were overvalued before is not entertained at all. A bear
market is not generally acknowledged and bullish analysts continue to
refer to the prices declines as severe but still corrective. The
term "healthy" is heard much less frequently.

As the stock market gyrates up and down, each short term low is declared
to be a major bottom. The Bulls still have enthusiasm and eagerness for
stocks because it is still inconceivable that they won't soon spring back
to life. Hope springs eternal early in a bear market!

James Glassman's recent comments are very indicative of the sentiment in
this stage:

But it is almost always a mistake to sell in a panic. In fact, it is
almost always a mistake to sell, period.

. . .

The worst bear market since the Great Depression occurred between
December 1972, and September 1974, when the S&P lost 43 percent.
But by June 1976, the market was back to its pre-bear levels. That's
hardly a sharp bounce-back, but for anyone under age 50 and planning
to retire at age 65, the downdraft was practically meaningless.

Another feature of this stage is playing down very bad scenarios and
selectively concentrating on favorable aspects. From everything that I've
read about that period and from the experiences of investors involved in the
markets during that period, holding a bullish resolve during that vicious
bear market was much, much easier said than done. What Glassman forgot to
mention is that the peak reached in 1976 wouldn't be reached again until
1982 but hey, that is why he gets paid the big bucks working for one of the
country's top newspapers.

PaineWebber recently insisted [in the denial stage] that the Bear would
remain slumbering indefinitely. Now that we are in the hope stage, their
tune has change as evidence by their chief investment strategist's
[Ed Kerschner] comments to the firm's customers:

Absent a U.S. and European recession, this market is cheap.
The stock market is approaching excessively undervalued levels, almost
the mirror image of the overvalued levels reached in the early autumn
of 1987.

So basically, they are hoping that there won't be a recession even as
deflation is spreading around the globe and the U.S. yield curve has
inverted for the first time since the last recession in the early 1990s.

Despair:

In this stage, the investment glass is empty and shattered.

Investor sentiment has been completely undermined by continued declines in
the stock market. Undervalued stocks become even more undervalued and
sharp rallies are always followed by even sharper declines. Although
the bear market has been in place for quite some time, it is finally
recognized by most investors.

Even as stocks become more undervalued, investors begin to perceive them
as risky and begin to gravitate towards other investment vehicles that
have performed better during the same period.

In the media, bad news is thrived on as much as good news was. Recall
the Death of Equities article which basically wrote off stocks for good
at the tail end of the 1966-1982 secular bear market. In my research,
it was very difficult to find any articles professing that good times were
just around the corner. A Bull during the stage of despair is about as
well received as a Bear during the stage of denial.

The media focuses on the "doom and gloom" because it is what the public
acknowledges and accepts. I don't think articles such as the ones that
James Glassman and other bull market advocates would have been very well
received during the late 1970s.

Eventually the despair becomes so great that the public loses interests
in stocks entirely. This is one of the reasons why the Dow's P/E ratio
fell to single digits after the 1973-74 bear market. Sure stocks were
damn cheap, but it had been investors previous experience that they could
fall even lower.

fiendbear.com



To: James Strauss who wrote (20022)9/6/1998 1:08:00 AM
From: Dom B.  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 50167
 
Thanks for your posts, Jim. Respectfully request

comment/s on -

Message 5672995

tia...//dom



To: James Strauss who wrote (20022)9/6/1998 8:11:00 AM
From: OVETUS  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 50167
 
Very simple: If the markets need the help of AG,to go up,means it'll go DOWN

Just my opinion,i am not an expert in calling markets bottoms or peaks, but one thing i know for sure is........................
"that the US has traditionally speak out and loudly that the markets must move in a free way, WITH NO INTERVENTION AT ALL FOR ANYBODY, but the lates developments has called my atention to the point of believe that there are a group of very powerfull people who seem to want the markets to go UP and no down, in other words, they are keep sending declarations to the fianancial wires and the fiancial comunity about their thinking of the market to going back up again,example,Rubin,greenspan,any of the G7 finance ministers,every time the open their mouth,is to say something to try to push the markets up, but i thought that kind of manipulation i would never see it in the US stock markets, because they have been the best example of the REAL FREE MARKETS, but now, i am beginning to believe that also in the US markets there is manipulation, and they seem to be intereste in the markets to go up. Why? i don't know, but if we have a little of memory, we all know,what is going to bring this kind of commitment to always want the markets to go up, we have the deterioration of credibility of the finance ministers in Japan, where they have been talking and talking for YEARS the market up, they have been talking for YEARS that the end of the crisis has reached, that the bottom of the bubble bursting has finaled arrived, and what was happened till today, just the opposite, the maeket went DOWN,the credibility of their fiance ministers was GONE, they can keep talking and talking and seem that nobody listen to them, as a result we have a country with financial figures on the top posts of the goverment that does not have credibility at all, well , this is what is going to happen with the Rubins and Greenspans, if their continue to give speechees to the market in order to keep it from going down, they are going to loss credibility, because the markets will go the way they way they should go, no the way SOME PEOPLE want it to go, and as a result we will be in the midle of a severe down global markets with no body in the financial coumunity to believe in, because all of them will be descredited,because of their openly showed intentions to keep the markets going just one way, and in this case is UP.
Also in my opinion, the last 2 days last hours misterious rally ,was something i like it to ask any of you in this thread,if you know how much volume was at the very beginning of such a sharp move up, and what was the end of day volume, just to let me know how much they bought? because i am thinking on the idea that there were just buying of the indexes, but it was not buying of stocks, and the way the market was selling before that turnaround, was really selling on the stocks, so i would thank you if you can give me this numbers.
Finally, appears to me tha the financial authorities are BULLS and they made their bets on the upside, because they always keep telling every body that the markets are in goos­d shape that the Russia situation wont'affect US, bla,bla, bla, and the worst and most dangerous signal for me, and i repeat in just my Hopinion is that they has just taken their last card, TALK ABOUT AN INTEREST RATE CUT, that for me is the most clear signs that the things are really worst than we believe, and THEY know it, but they were wrong in their bets
to the upside of the markets, and now they are trying to keep this market from falling as it wants to fall, and they are trying to turning it back up, with that kind of false buying at the last moment, just to give a false signal to the world comunity, that Wall Street made a ¨big turnaround?in the last hour, of course they are using their last card, i mean the talking about rate cuts, the very common sense people, who is the vast majority in this market is not foul, the people knows that every thing that goes up, IT HAS TO GO DOWN SOME DAY, well , now is the turn for the Stock markets to go down, and the Rubins and Greenspan SHOULD let the markets move freely all the way down until it finds its bottom, but without manipulation, and without trying to influence that move down by talking about the rate cut,that was the very worst signal i could expect for the US authorities,they must let the markets move free, as they always have been proclaiming. Look, there is an example that cutting interest rates does not guarantee an upside move in the stock market, look at Japan, with the very low level of interest rates , the market tanked, so what are they trying to do now by telling us that may be they will CUT rates, in ordinary words, they are teling the comun investor, hey, you buddy, go and buy in the market because i am goig to CUT rates, and because i am the SUPERMAN, i am telling you in other words that the market is going to go UP, and because i want you to make a lot of money, thats i am going to talk about a rate cut, so junp in the market and BUY ,stocks or calls, NO PUTS of course. Well, this kind of action, is well known by the people, and the most they are going to keep telling the world they are going to cut rates, THE MOST THE MARKET WILL FALL, just simple, the market was up big for quite some time, years, a lot of years, so there is no doubt , the market has to go down, and maybe for years also, it just a natural way of thinking, maybe i am wrong , but as of today, the global markets are signalin they have to go lower, but if they (Big guys, financial authorities) start telling the people that the market has gone down enough and they are doing things to prevent it for going down more, they are just telling us in other words that: We know, the market is going down, but we want that other people loos their money in order to save ours money, so we need somebody to jump into the market and BUY stocks, so in that way when the market keep going down we will be out and waiting for the NATURAL BOTTOM, to start the real buying again, maybe years later, and a ta time they are going to tell us that they are going to RAISE HIKE RATES, in oreder to scare us and make us sell at very lower prices and they buy them . In conclusion, to this poor man, an ordinary man, with no economics studies at all. is very clear, in a free market there is no body who behaves in behalf of the other, every one want to profit, so if they are sending signals that we must buy on the long side, that clearly means that EVEN AT TODAYS PRICES THEY ARE COMITTED TO SELL, in other words, they find the market still overvalued a this level, and want other foul to buy from them. So in fact of the recent downturns in the markets these couple weeks, they ar getting worried because of the ordinary investor like myself who is not following their signals (orders to Buy) and on the other hand we keep selling short or buying puts, and as a result they are lossing enourmous amounts of paper profits, they never got because they were waiting for another bounch of fouls to come and say hey, i want to pay you 135 USDOLLARS for ONE share od DELL, come on and i want to pay 25 times or more earnings in general on the SP, well ,that hopefully stopped at the midle of july, and then they found out that there were no more stupid buyers left in the market to keep buying from them at such lofty prices, so they start
wondering HOW CAN WE GET OUT OF THESE PIECE OF PAPERS AND CONVERT THEM IN REAL MONEY??? well, all of you has the answer, they srted the selling, but they are still traped with such a big amount of paper to sell, and because of the ordinary investor is not buying right now, theyare sending FALSE signals like the last minutes hours rallies,(in the futures), or the last resort, start spreading the talks about a possible rate cut. That just teel me that they are trying by any possible way, to get the people back to the market and buy........but i ask any of you this question:
WHO IS GOING TO SEEL ???

Finally, the markets has to move freely, with no interventions, and if wants to go down , down will go, and if they try to misleading us,they are going to find themeselves in the same position than the President, Clinton, i mean with no credibility in their words.

Just a very simple opinion.
take care,
Jan Jose.



To: James Strauss who wrote (20022)9/6/1998 12:00:00 PM
From: Lee  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 50167
 
James,..Re:The FED should cut rates.

Are you suggesting that the Fed should become the World's Central Banker? I would remind you that events external to the US are not in the mandate of the US Central Banker's. For more evidence to this fact, read carefully AG's reply when questioned about a rate ease last week. From thestreet.com.

Message 5643988

The Invisible Mouth: Greenspan and Me

By James Padinha
Economics Correspondent
8/28/98 3:15 PM ET

House Guest

Short of a real threat to U.S. GDP growth, the Fed is not going to lower the federal funds rate for the simple reason that it won't fix the Japanese banking system or stabilize the Russian ruble.

If and when a decline in the U.S. stock market depresses consumer confidence and consumer spending, putting the U.S. economy at risk, the Fed will adhere to its mandate of fostering price stability and full employment. Then, and not before.


I don't understand your comment about attempt to buoy the U.S. markets. If you carefully review all the US economic numbers, you may find that the economy is doing very nicely. Markets, on the other hand, are prone to rumor and hysteria, i.e. witness the sell off associated with the ruble devaluation.

re:It's the health of the economy that really moves the market.. Actually this is true and once it is again demonstrated that the US domestic economy is healthy via good earnings, then the markets will probably adjust accordingly.

Re:With earnings projections being lowered in the coming Qtrs a recession seems likely and cannot be postponed indefinitely by artificial monetary manipulations

I don't understand what you mean by artificial monetary manipulations nor is it clear that earnings projections are being lowered for all issues.

The whole family of yield curves has moved to a lower level but except for the 2 year issue having a higher rate than the 5 year, the curve is not yet inverted. In other words, long rates are still at 5.31% and short rates are below 5%. These rates are lower than the overnight lending rate; however, this shift is due to global circumstances and not domestic circumstances.

As evidenced from Friday's jobs report, employment is still at multiyear lows and wages are growing at a 4.3% annual rate. Under these circumstances, it is likely that consumer confidence will remain at higher levels therefore supporting and lengthening this expansion. Since the consumer contributes approximately 68% to the GDP numbers, it seems unlikely that under these circumstances we would experience any recessionary tendencies.

Finally, James Padhina makes an excellent case why the Fed isn't going to ease in his Aug. 31 piece about For the Fed to Ease
which essentially states that 4 things have to happen.

1- Unemployment has to increase
2- Consumption has to evaporate- consumer is still strong - witness recent auto sales
3- Confidence numbers have to come way down
4- Money supply has to contract- still growing at above target

I like Padhina's columns because besides being a witty journalist, he includes links to all the numbers included in the text. In other words, every word is substantiated.

Regards,

Lee

PS - If you want charts and graphs to substantiate anything discussed above, please let me know.