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Pastimes : Religion on SI -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (940)	9/9/1998 5:39:00 PM
From: Zeev Hed	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1542

Steve, I am sorry, but when I read your PS, I could not stop laughing: " If they kicked me off of SI for what I said, I would be proud going down! Kind of like eating grapes from virgin babes in heaven, you know!" Is that the "salvation" I am going to miss? Fine with me. Zeev

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (940)	9/9/1998 8:19:00 PM
From: Raymond James Norris	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1542

I am trying to tell people about the one true God Almighty! I am trying to show the way to heaven. So am I. And all you keep doing here, and on other threads I see, is trying to stop people from getting there. That's kinda naive, wouldn't you say? Who said "my way" is wrong or "your way" is right? You may definitely believe that but then comes the subject of proving it. If you have a right to tell people about God Almighty and "show them" the way to heaven (which in my opinion sounds like an arrogant way to look at things), then I have the same right to tell people about God Almighty and not show them, but invite them to the Straight Path and pray that God shows them that path. Only God alone can do that..... The Qur'an is a plea and a warning. It says explicitly that "There is No Compulsion in Religion." I am not here to force anyone to do anything. I cannot show anyone anything. Only God can show people. Only God can life the veil from one's heart. Only God can allow someone to seek the truth. There is not a thing that occurs in this world but by the Will of God. No matter what. And everything has its purpose. You never introduce your beliefs! Sorry? Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else. On Day 1, I laid down the message and explained exactly what I believed (and I never got a chance to explain why I believe it). If you ask, I will most certainly reply. You can't possibly accuse me of being guilty of not answering questions on your mind. Many others, including myself, have tried to stop you, Oh I see....only Christians can preach religion? Raymond, tell us, what are your beliefs? Let examine your Quoran! Let's see how much scrutiny it holds up too. Well I wish you luck because its held up to 1400 years of the greatest scrutiny from the greatest minds. And the Catholic Encyclopedia is one of the only sources to be honest in their findings (under the title of the Qur'an): "Many people have suggested on the origin of this book (the Qur'an), but today, no sensible person believes any of these theories. This leaves the Christian in some difficulty." Stop knocking God's inerrant word and let's take a look at your Muslim beliefs, Muhammed and the Holy Quoran under a microscope! LOL.......Oh I see.....so when you can't defend the Bible, let's attack the Qur'an?? Remember Steve, it was you who posed more than a dozen questions to me about Islam and it was I that answered each one. And it was I that asked for a reply on 3 questions of mind (errors in the Bible) and it was you who never answered them. If you'd like your memory refreshed, please just ask.... As for defending the Qur'an, I don't need to. It defends itself. It names itself "The Clear Argument" and claims to have a response to any question that someone might pose about its origin. If you'd like to ignore the Bible's inconsistencies and focus on the topic of the Miracles of the Qur'an, that is more than fine. But you and I will always know the weakness of your position on that subject. What about your position on the Jews? Up for the challenge..... Challenge? Is this now a game? In Islam we believe the Jews are our cousins. The Qur'an refers to the Jews with love and kindness and calls them (as well as Christians) "The People of the Book." Moses is on the 7th level of Heaven and among those closest to God Almighty. But stop knocking the bible........ Oh PLEASE! I never have "knocked the Bible." I only pointed out 2 verses that disagree with each other. Is that considered "knocking the Bible?" I also showed historical inaccuracies and anachronisms in the Bible. Is that "knocking the Bible?" I demonstrated the additions to the Bible in major beliefs (such as John 9:6, the Marcan Appendix, etc.). Is that considered "knocking the Bible." Perhaps you mean to say, "Questioning the Bible." God forbid. Peace be Unto You, Norris

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (940)	9/9/1998 10:42:00 PM
From: wallacestevens	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1542

Steve, I hate to burst your bubble, but the Koran (or Q'uran) is the only sacred text that is purported to be the direct word of God / Allah. It was transmitted through the angel Gabriel to the prophet Mohammad entirely over a great length of time when he was in trance. To protect its integrity, it is not supposed to be translated. If you are to truly study Islam, you must learn Arabic. I am not up to the challenge. I have two English translations. The Hebrew and Christian bibles, on the other hand, weren't even put together in their current form until many hundreds of years after the original stories were first told and then written down. Just read the gospels. They each contain different versions of the same events, emphasizing what was important at the time they were written. All legitimate scholars agree that the books found in the Hebrew and Christian bibles were written by human beings over a period of about a thousand years, more or less. It doesn't mean their meaning isn't sacred or spiritual. The Koran, on the other hand, did come from the mouth of one single person who, according to believers, was a vessel for the direct word of Allah/God. PS: "virgin babes"????????