Steve,
I feel compelled to respond to this post even though it was not directed to me. It's obvious you care to give no respect to Islam or Muhammad (Pbuh). Contrast this with the Islamic view where all Muslims give the highest respect to Jesus (Pbuh) and his disciples as well as all Christians. The Qur'an reiterates that Christians "Are nearest in love to Islam." You will not find me saying Jesus (Pbuh) without adding "Peace and Blessings of God Be Upon him."
Now, to get to your attacks:
Key is here though, supposed to be direct of God. It's not! It's from an illiterate camel caravan driver.
Care to prove it? I certainly can prove the Qur'an is not from Muhammad (Pbuh).
If this proposition were true, God is an out an out liar. The Q'uran directly contradicts biblical teachings from the bible.
Nice Double Bind (a fallacy in logic where an assumption is made to be true that was not established). The Qur'an would be wrong if the Bible were 100% from God, but the errors and inconsistencies cast serious doubt on that proposition. So your point is moot.
From the bible:
"Thou shalt not murder". Exodus 20:13
From the Q'uran:
--Muslims must fight until their opponents submit to Islam
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them...and lie and wait for them...;
but if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity then open the way for them". Surah 9:5
What are you doing? This is so utterly distorted that only a person with malicious motives would post this.
First off, God does say "Thou Shall not Kill," yet we find Him ordering people to kill people? Not only that, we find God saying in the Bible that adultery is forbidden, yet He also commands people to perform adultery? What's the explanation? There are numerous times where God has ordered David or others to kill the pagans. Many, many times. The verse you're referring to is speaking about a specific time in Muhammad's (Pbuh) life. It would be no different than when God ordered David to kill the pagans.
Second, it is false that Muslims must fight until their opponents submit to Islam. You quote the Qur'an and then give your own interpretation. There is no compulsion in Islam, everyone is free to believe what she/he wants to believe.
You know full well that the verse you quoted was discussing a time when the Meccans were killing the small groups of Muslims. You know full well that after hundreds of Muslims died, God finally allowed the Muslims by sending a verse that they could defend themselves. No one is forced into Islam. They can't be. They are invited, but if they don't want to become Muslim, that's fine.
--Resisting Islam is punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of hands.
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the
land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of the hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land..." Surah
5:36
Oh please! This is talking about the Pagans that killed all the Muslims. In Islam, if someone kills another person, then the punishment is death. This verse was explaining that in relation to the people who had killed hundreds of Muslims.
Which one seems it's from a loving God?
Why dont you decide?
EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men.
LE 26:7-8 The Lord promises the Israelites that, if they are obedient, their enemies will "fall before your sword."
LE 26:29, DT 28:53, JE 19:9, EZ 5:8-10 As a punishment, the Lord will cause people to eat the flesh of their own sons and daughters and fathers and friends.
NU 15:32-36 A Sabbath breaker (who had gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death at the Lord's command.
NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.
NU 25:4 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun ...."
NU 31:17-18 Moses, following the Lord's command, orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children and "... every woman who has known man ...."
NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.
DT 7:2 The Lord commands the Israelites to "utterly destroy" and shown "no mercy" to those whom he gives them for defeat.
DT 21:10-13 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to take "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their captive wives. If, after sexual relations, the husband has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.
JS 8:22-25 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai, killing 12,000 men and women, so that there were none who escaped
2SA 10:18 David slew 47,000+ Syrians.
2SA 8:6, 14 "The Lord gave victory to David wherever he went."
PS 144:1 God is praised as the one who trains hands for war and fingers for battle.
EZ 23:25, 47 God is going to slay the sons and daughters of those who were whores.
EZ 9:4-6 The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women ...."
Now I ask you, does this sound like it comes from a peace loving God? You see in the OT God ordering people killed. Surprised?
Also, what does it say about the angel Gabriel? He would be an absolute liar. He tells us about the birth of Christ as the Son of God and then later on tells us that is not true. So now angels would have to be liars.
I'm not sure if you're referring to the Qu'ran or the Bible so I'll take this both ways:
If you're referring to the Qur'an: There is no place where Gabriel notifies Mary that she has "the son of God" in her womb. Gabriel informs her of a "word" sent by God to her and that this child's name will be Christ (Pbuh).
If you're referring to the Bible: The allegation is not that Gabriel lied but the person reporting Gabriel's words lied. There is ample evidence that the Bible has "other errors" so what proof do you have that this is not another one of them? You may not know this Steve, but Christian Scholars universally agree that the Books of John, Mark, Luke, and Matthew were not written by John, Mark, Luke, and Matthew. They are in total agreement that they were written by other writers that never knew Jesus (Pbuh).
.Also, logically now, a book that can not be translated unless you learn Arabiac. Interesting?
I never said this Stevie. The Qur'an is translated into many languages but Wallace's point was that while there are translations, they are not the actual Qur'an. They are merely approximations of the meaning of the Qur'an. The proof is in the Qur'an of this when it notes that the tongue of the Qur'an is Arabic and to truly appreciate all its miracles, one should read the text in Arabic.
This does not mean all Muslims know Arabic or they must learn Arabic. Simply a reminder that no matter what language something is translated to, it's not the same as the original language it was intended for. I could go into the diction and word applications of the language to demonstrate what I'm talking about if you'd like (another point is the Qur'an not only contains scientific miracles but also prose miracles. It is the ultimate form of Arabic poetry. The verses rhyme and flow together. The Qur'an claims that no human can write as beautifully as it has been written (and no one has been able to match it). It is the ultimate in Arabic prose and represents a level people try to attain but have never been able to).
When the OT talks about a coming prophet, wasn't he talking to the Jews? Weren't the Jews speaking Hebrew? Why now the language shift?
Simple Steve, Jesus (Pbuh) made reference to this specifically. The Bible explains that the kingdom of God would be taken away from the Jews and given to a new nation. Jesus (Pbuh) makes it clear. And Jesus (Pbuh) says that anyone who does not heed this religion will be grinded into dust.
Matthew 21:43
Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
The Q'uran is in a dialect that even today's Arabiac could not translate. So would God be fair to write a book in a language most people, even people knowing Arabiac, could not even translate?
Steve, take my advice, don't make up something to prove a point. It only makes your case appear that much worse.
Of course the above is absurd and even the most elementary person with any knowledge on Islam or the Qur'an can tell you how ignorant the above statement is. I honestly say this is a new low for you Steve. This is just so incredibly crazy and inappropriate. It's like my saying Jesus (Pbuh) spoke Greek to the disciples.
Also, Muhammed was supposed to be the fulfillment of Deut. 18:18 right? (Deut. 18:18: I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.) Well if we accept this, why didn't Muhammed know Hebrew?
You've set yourself up too easily Steve.
A few points to note about Deuteronomy 18:18
First and foremost, the verse does not say the Prophet like Moses will be raised up from among the Israelites but rather from among the brothers of the Israelites. Now an easy question: Who are the brothers of the Israelites? (Hint: Who's Isaac's older brother?)
Second, you can't take verses out of context. If we read on in Deuteronomy 18:18, we find clarification of the Prophet, and in fact, 2 more criteria which only proves the more it was Muhammad (Pbuh). The fist is that false Prophets shall be killed if they speak in God's name or in the names of other gods (remember, this is a criteria to judge a Prophet in question and was used by the people, so a "spiritual death" won't save you in this circumstance).
The third point is the final criteria which really is the clincher, and that is the absolute way of knowing a True Prophet from a false one. A true prophet, we read in the concluding verses of Deuteronomy chapter 18, will speak of things presumptously, that is, before they occur. This is a direct claim of a Prophet who would make prophecies that would occur in the future and know things that the people did not know.
And as we have it, when we place the 3 criteria together, a picture emerges:
1. The Prophet will be from the brothers of the Israelites (Ishmaelites)
2. A false prophet speaking in God's name will be killed while a true one will no.
3. The true prophet will speak of things presumptously, or before they occur.
I'll continue on these verses in future posts as they begin to relate to Muhammad (Pbuh). Note: Isaiah 29:12 gives even a clearer prophecy when it speaks of the Prophet who will have a book delivered to him saying, "Read!" and the prophet will answer, "I cannot read." Anyone having knowledge of how the Qur'an was revealed will find these verses particularly interesting.
Peace and Blessings of God be Upon you all,
Norris |
