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To: mark silvers who wrote (20667)9/11/1998 8:56:00 AM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST  Respond to of 39621
 
Mark,

Mr. Ferguson has presented the scripture in a very inaccurate light, as he always does. A little slant this way, a little out of context that way and he plays with your mind the rest of the time. If he does not repent, God has a very special place reserved for him.

He does, however, masterfully play on some of your points of concern with the bible, to accentuate the things you might be bothered by. He's a great Satanic tool. Satan rejoices over Sam. He's a great deceiver.

If you desire individual studies on each one he mentions, let me know and we could go through them 1 by 1. Just tell me where you want to start. I'll try to go through each one with the best explanation I could.

God Bless,
Steve



To: mark silvers who wrote (20667)9/12/1998 12:24:00 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
DOES GOD APPROVE OF SLAVERY?
(EXODUS 21:2-11)

Does God approve of slavery? If not, why do we find so much legislation in the Old Testament on how to treat slaves?

There were basically two types of slaves in the Old Testament: the fellow Hebrew who sold himself in order to raise capital (Lev 25:39-55; Deut 15:12-18) and the foreign prisoner of war. In the postexilic days, during the days of Ezra and Nehemiah, there was a third type known as the ntinim (closest looking I could get to word without proper fonts). Their origins were probably the same as those Gibeonites of Joshua's day who became cutters of woods and carriers of water rather than risk losing their lives in further miliary opposition to Israel.

Never, however, did Israel ever enter into the capture and sale of human life as did the Phoenician and Philistine traders and later the European nations. The third class of slaves called the ntinium never were real serfs, but instead formed a clerical order attached to the temple with positions ranking just below that of the Levites, who also assisted in the services at the temple.

A fellow Israelite who needed to raise money to pay for debts or the like could not borrow against his property (for that was owned by the Lord according to Leviticus 25:23) but had to sell the only asset he possessed: his labor power. However, there were strict rules that governed his or her treatment during the maximum of six years that such a relationship could be entered into with another Israelite. Should any master mistreat his slave with a rod, leaving an injury, the owner forfeited his whole investment (Ex 21:20-21, 26) and the slave was immediately released, or if the master caused the slave's death, the master was subject to capital punishment.

What about the status of non-Hebrew slaves? These captives were permanent slaves to the Israelites, but that did not mean that they could treat them as if they were mere chattel. The same rules of Exodus 21:20-21, 26 applied to them as well. One evidence of a mistreatment and they too went free. The foreign slave, along with the Hebrew household, had a day of rest each week (Ex 20:10; Deut 5:14).

A female slave who was married to her captor could not be sold again as a slave. If her master, now her husband, grew to hate her, she had to be liberated and was declared a free person (Deut 21:14).

The laws concerning slavery in the Old Testament appear to function to moderate a practice that worked as a means of loaning money for Jewish people to one another or for handling the problem of the prisoners of war. Nowhere was the institution of slavery as such condemned; but then, neither did it have anything like the connotations it grew to have during the days of those who traded human life as if it were a mere commodity for sale. This type of slavery was voluntary for the Hebrew and the ntinim; only the war prisoner was shackled involuntarily. But in all cases the institution was closely watched and divine judgment was declared by the prophets and others for all abuses they spotted.

Taken from Hard Sayings From The Bible - Parsons Technology



To: mark silvers who wrote (20667)9/12/1998 1:15:00 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST  Respond to of 39621
 
Mark,

In regard to the Numbers verse, here is a explanation of what happened with the women....

*keep alive for yourself

It has been groundlessly asserted, that Moses here authorised
the Israelites to make concubines of the whole number of
female children; and an insidious objection against his
writings has been grounded upon this monstrous supposition.
But the whole tenor of the law, and especially a statute
recorded in De 21:10-14, proves most decisively to the
contrary. They were merely permitted to possess them as
female slaves, educating them in their families, and employing
them as domestics; for the laws concerning fornication,
concubinage, and marriage, were in full force, and prohibited
an Israelite even from marrying a captive, without delays and
previous formalities; and if he afterwards divorced her, he
was to set here at liberty, "because he had humbled her."

And about captives, De 21:10-14

10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

Hope that helps.....

God Bless,
Steve



To: mark silvers who wrote (20667)9/12/1998 3:50:00 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
Number 36
1 And the heads of the fathers' [houses] of the family of the children of Gilead, the son of Machir, the son of Manasseh, of the families of the sons of Joseph, came near, and spake before Moses, and before the princes, the heads of the fathers' [houses] of the children of Israel:
2 and they said, Jehovah commanded my lord to give the land for inheritance by lot to the children of Israel: and my lord was commanded by Jehovah to give the inheritance of Zelophehad our brother unto his daughters.
3 And if they be married to any of the sons of the [other] tribes of the children of Israel, then will their inheritance be taken away from the inheritance of our fathers, and will be added to the inheritance of the tribe whereunto they shall belong: so will it be taken away from the lot of our inheritance.
4 And when the jubilee of the children of Israel shall be, then will their inheritance be added unto the inheritance of the tribe whereunto they shall belong: so will their inheritance be taken away from the inheritance of the tribe of our fathers.
5 And Moses commanded the children of Israel according to the word of Jehovah, saying, The tribe of the sons of Joseph speaketh right.
6 This is the thing which Jehovah doth command concerning the daughters of Zelophehad, saying, Let them be married to whom they think best; only into the family of the tribe of their father shall they be married.
7 So shall no inheritance of the children of Israel remove from tribe to tribe; for the children of Israel shall cleave every one to the inheritance of the tribe of his fathers.
8 And every daughter, that possesseth an inheritance in any tribe of the children of Israel, shall be wife unto one of the family of the tribe of her father, that the children of Israel may possess every man the inheritance of his fathers.
9 So shall no inheritance remove from one tribe to another tribe; for the tribes of the children of Israel shall cleave every one to his own inheritance.
10 Even as Jehovah commanded Moses, so did the daughters of Zelophehad:
11 for Mahlah, Tirzah, and Hoglah, and Milcah, and Noah, the daughters of Zelophehad, were married unto their father's brothers' sons.
12 They were married into the families of the sons of Manasseh the son of Joseph; and their inheritance remained in the tribe of the family of their father.
13 These are the commandments and the ordinances which Jehovah commanded by Moses unto the children of Israel in the plains of Moab by the Jordan at Jericho.

Commentaries on Numbers 36:

The Lord commanded.
To one division of the tribe of Manasseh, a portion had been
assigned eastward of Jordan; but Zelophehad was of that
division, to which an inheritance was afterwards allotted west
of Jordan; yet, expecting the promised land, the elders of the
Manassites now propose a difficulty, upon the adjudged case of
Zelophehad's daughters. (ch. 27:1-11.) If the females should
inherit, in defect of male issue, and should intermarry with
other tribes they would diminish the interest, and weaken the
influence of their own tribes, and give occasion to future
confusion, and perhaps contention. The Manassites therefore
referred the case to Moses; and he, by the authority of God,
annexed a clause, which would effectually keep the tribes and
inheritances distinct, as long as it was observed. Heiresses
were not allowed to marry out of their own tribe, though
within those bounds they might consult their own inclinations.

From Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge
---------------------------------------------------------------------
* The inheritance of the daughters of Zelophehad. (1-4) The daughters of Zelophehad are to marry in their own tribe. (5-12) Conclusion. (13)

#1-4 The heads of the tribe of Manasseh represent the evil which might follow, if the daughters of Zelophehad should marry into any other tribes. They sought to preserve the Divine appointment of inheritances, and that contests and quarrels should not rise among those who should come afterwards. It is the wisdom and duty of those who have estates in the world, to settle them, and to dispose of them, so that no strife and contention may arise.

#5-12 Those who consult the oracles of God, concerning the making of their heavenly inheritance sure, shall not only be directed what to do, but their inquiries shall be graciously accepted. God would not have one tribe enriched at the expense of another. Each tribe was to keep to its own inheritance. The daughters of Zelophehad submitted to this appointment. How could they fail to marry well, when God himself directed them? Let the people of God learn how suitable and proper it is, like the daughters of Israel, to be united only to their own people. Ought not every true believer in Jesus, to be very
attentive in the near and tender relations of life, to be united only to such as are united to the Lord? All our intentions and inclinations ought to be subjected to the will of God, when that is made known to us, and especially in contracting marriage. Although the word of God allows affection and preference in this important relation, it does not sanction that foolish,
ungovernable, and idolatrous passion, which cares not what may be the end; but in defiance of authority, determines upon self-gratification. All such conduct, however disguised, is against common sense, the interests of society, the happiness of the marriage relation, and, what is still more evil, against the religion of Christ.

#13 These are the judgments the Lord commanded in the plains of Moab. Most of them related to the settlement in Canaan, into which the Israelites were now entering. Whatever new condition God, by his providence, brings us into, we must beg him to teach us the duties of it, and to enable us to do them, that we may do the work of the day in its day, the duty of a place in its place.

Taken from Matthew Henry Concise Commentary
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Mark,

Let me know if I must do any further studying in order to expose the blasphemer....

I have posted a couple of scriptural evidences which should show the truths about some of the scriptures you were concerned with in the post you referenced.

God Bless,
Steve





To: mark silvers who wrote (20667)9/12/1998 4:01:00 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST  Respond to of 39621
 
Mark,

Just a little information about plundering as well, because it is also mentioned in the post you showed concern with;

PLUNDERING THE EGYPTIANS?
(EXODUS 12:35-36)

Three separate passages in Exodus record the narrative generally referred to as the spoiling of the Egyptians (Ex 3:21-22; 11:2-3; 12:35-36). The problems associated with the passages are partly a modern translation problem, which existed in most translations until just recently, and partly the question of whether Israel deceived the Egyptians by borrowing clothing and jewelry they would never return. How could God have commanded them to borrow items when he knew the Israelites would never return with them?

Let us first address the verb sometimes translated "to borrow." This verb can as easily be rendered "to ask for something [with no thought of return]" (Judg 8:24; 1 Sam 1:28). Accordingly, the third-century B.C. Greek translation of the Septuagint and the Latin Vulgate translated it "to ask." This same Hebrew word is occasionally translated "to borrow," as in Exodus 22:14 or 2 Kings 4:3 and 6:5. In these instances, context determines its rendering.

In this case, the context also contains the verb to plunder. Here the meaning is clear, as it is in 2 Chronicles 20:25. It is a military metaphor which could, in some contexts, imply taking things by force, but never by fraud, deceit or any kind of a ruse or cunning device. It is not, however, the usual term for plundering the enemy.

The background for this thrice-recorded incident is the ancient promise God had given to Abraham in Genesis 15:14 that the Hebrews would leave Egypt "with great possessions." God repeated this promise to Moses: Israel would "not go empty-handed" (Ex 3:20-21) away from Egypt.

God himself favorably disposed the hearts of the Egyptians toward Israel (Ps 106:46 says, "He caused them to be pitied"). Also Moses was "highly regarded" (Ex 11:3) by the Egyptians. However, such esteem was not solely attributable to Moses' personal qualifications, though he had garnered quite a reputation with the magicians (Ex 8:18-19), the court officials (Ex 9:20; 10:7) and Pharaoh himself (Ex 9:27; 10:16). The general populace of Egypt recognized that God was with this man and his people. Therefore a great outpouring of generosity ensued, and that is what these three texts record. All the Israelites had to do was ask. The people were so ready to acknowledge that Israel indeed had been mistreated and that God had been remarkably present with the Jewish leadership that they gave openhandedly.

Notice that the women did not ask for such objects as weapons, armor, cattle, food supplies or goods for their homes, tables or job occupations. To avoid all suggestions in this direction, the author of Psalm 105:37 may have dropped the word articles before the words silver and gold so as not to imply that the Israelites asked for a third group of things besides the jewels and clothing.

This type of spoiling is not the usual term used of plundering someone who has fallen in battle. When one adds that the Egyptians willingly surrendered their jewels and articles of silver and gold, the apparent moral problem is resolved. One can guess that the Egyptians viewed their gifts as partial compensation for the grief and toil the Hebrews endured during their centuries of slavery in that land.

No legitimate moral questions remain once the situation is understood as a straightforward request which the Egyptians answered only too gladly, for by now almost everyone sympathized with their cause.

Taken from Hard Sayings from the Bible

Don't be manipulated! Search for the truth yourself. That's all it takes to expose a fraud.

God Bless,
Steve




To: mark silvers who wrote (20667)9/12/1998 4:24:00 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
Matthew 4

1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
2 And he fasted forty days and forty nights, and afterward he was hungry.
3 And the tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread."
4 But he answered, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple,
6 and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down; for it is written, 'He will give his angels charge of you,' and 'On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'"
7 Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'"
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them;
9 and he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me."
10 Then Jesus said to him, "Begone, Satan! for it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"
11 Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and ministered to him.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark,

Be careful of the craftiness of the devil!

The above is a case study of the devil, that he will even try to trick God, using God's own word! But of course the devil lost to God!

The question though, will you allow the devil to beat you?????

This happen a lot on these threads. I mean specifically the use of God's words inappropriately. Beware!

Steve