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To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (20379)9/13/1998 8:39:00 AM
From: HighTech  Respond to of 50167
 
"Christ only allowed the first stone to be thrown on a adulterer by someone who is born and raised completely pure."

Jesus always forgave a sinner who was sorry for their sins and turned from them. He also said to a sinner, "your sins are forgiven, now go and sin no more There was an added responsibility on the sinner to control their future behavior.

Considering the pathological and repeated behavior of Mr. Clinton, it makes a mockery of Jesus' words. Although I would agree that his new and "latest" public apology and appeal for forgiveness at a prayer breakfast, although seemingly an act of a wounded and caged animal that does whatever is necessary to get out of the situation of his own making, only God and Mr. Clinton really knows whether he is sincere. In that regard, I withhold judgement.

HiTech



To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (20379)9/13/1998 10:20:00 AM
From: Brian Fukuba  Respond to of 50167
 
Well stated, Ike. Perhaps all of this in indicative of a fatal flaw in the American personality. Or as you stated, our simple, collective immaturity. I am sad because of all the energy and focus that will be spent on this will be stolen from the important and practical issues that are facing us.

bri



To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (20379)9/13/1998 10:21:00 AM
From: J. P.  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 50167
 
IQBAL, thank you for your commentary on the Clinton/Starr situation, curiously of all the television and newspaper editorial I've seen and read, yours is the most succinct and correct in my estimation.

I am shocked and disturbed by these new revelations.

No, not the revelations of the details of Clinton's sex life, but the revelation of the moral indignation and puritannical streak of the general American populace.

Are we really so naive and immature?

And the dogma of the president's detractors is also disturbing to me. There are no areas for debate anymore, it seems. It has been my observation that those who make the biggest deal out of these human transgressions are often the worst offenders, either in thought or deed.



To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (20379)9/13/1998 11:08:00 AM
From: jayhawk969  Respond to of 50167
 
Ike,

Thank you for your "worldly" perspective an insights into this fiasco. I thoroughly enjoyed your perspective.
I do however, take exception to your following excerpt:
The
people with lesser desire and lower libidos can talk about their virtues, but for me
these high morals of self styled puritans people like 'Kenneth Starr' may only pass
this test due to personnel circumstances and limitations of availability. Characters
like Jack Kennedy and Clinton have a common trait 'that of good looks' people do
get attracted to them, it is kind of fatal obsession.


Puritanical action and or other virtuous activity or the lack of it is not totally guided by the "good looks and power" afforded the individual. If so this would be the case for all with this "affliction". To a greater extent I believe the driving forces to behavior to be self esteem and base values.
Peter Senge in the "The Fifth Discipline" makes the case that most mortals are cursed with one or both of two aspects of low self esteem; either the belief of low self worth, or the sense of inadequacy.
BC has no sense of inadequacy, however, IMO he is cursed with "low self worth". A lifetime of observation shows that this particular affliction often occurs in a family/peer environment that is incomplete in love or nurturing during the formative years. It is very often accompanied by a broken or abusive home. Bill Clinton suffered from both(the death of his father prior to his birth and an alcoholic step father). Unless one gets help, addiction of one type or another will develop to feed the "inner hunger". It so happens that "if" one is an adonis then we have a likely scenario that we have found with JFK and BC. The good looks and power are the circumstances that frame the addiction. The low self esteem(poor sense of self worth) is the root cause.

J.D.



To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (20379)9/13/1998 10:29:00 PM
From: Joe S Pack  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 50167
 
Ike,
I wholeheartedly agree with your points regarding the quality of this report. I have not read all the the items after this post but could n't resist giving my opinion at this point.

1) Why not congress give just a couple of million dollars to write
a better X-rated novel than allow this Starr guy?
2) Why not put the whole gory details into that so called 2000 pages appendices and have a small summary referring to that part?
3) What the hell is these congress (indecent) men doing? They waited more than damn 4 years to find nothing about whitewater and other stuff and why so much rush to release this XXX-rated novel on the internet? Cannot they wait for another couple of days to sort them and provide enough censorship on all those salacious materials?
4) Is it not crying foul of these shameless congress about privacy and
decency law on internet? Can they go with a straight face and tell their kids that go and read this historic document to learn about US
history?
I am ashamed of the way they acted to release this garbage on internet. It is not that my son or daughter will not know about O-sex
but they will get plenty of opportunity when they are old enough.
I don't want to these slimey congress to teach my kids about sex
without regard for morality or decency.
(To be frank I have not read all the material. Suffice it read a few
pages and get an idea about the quality of this report.)

-Karun

-Karun



To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (20379)9/13/1998 10:32:00 PM
From: Elllk  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 50167
 
IQBAL

You haven't read enough about Lyndon Johnson who with reference to JFK said something to the effect of <<Christ, I screwed more women by accident than he did on purpose.>> And he was probably right. The achievement, no doubt, being that much greater because he was ugly with big ears and a crude manner. The only one Johnson probably couldn't have said that about was Joe Kennedy, the Father, whose fortune, earned privilege, and, to be sure, sins were visited upon the sons. Joe's sexual legacy was probably too great a burden for any children to bear well (and certainly not without perpetual STD's or worse). Even Clinton, whose idolization of JFK was enormous, became, in my opinion, a kind of adopted legatee and placed himself in the competition, probably taking pleasure in doing some of the same things as his hero in some of the same cubbyholes and spots of the same home. Joe, the old codger, would probably take great pleasure in all of his strange impact..

I have no antipathy for or need to campaign against sexual encounters or affairs of any kind which are conducted in a reasonable and adult manner. On the other hand, if you can read "Darkside of Camelot" without getting a queasy stomach, even just about the sexual stuff, we probably don't live on planets close enough to have a conversation about this. This, however, is aside from understanding the further horror of how close we came during the Cuban Missile Crisis to the fate of Nagasaki or Hiroshima because of something close to a macho recklessness on the part of the Kennedys, of which the sexual stuff was only one reflection. And beyond that, how compromised JFK might have been by the so-called "back-channel" deals, initially given credit for resolving the crisis, if he had gone on to a second term or how compromising the same may have been to RFK had he ever succeded JFK while Krushchev was still in power in the USSR.

With respect to Clinton, his real "sin," and he would probably agree with this including the use of the terminology, is to be one of the greatest politicians in history and yet to have mis-read the political-moral-emotional landscape of the American people and institutions as a whole. His mis-reading of what he could get away with or of its potential impact if it came out or his failure to consider this possibility, reflects a Kennedy-like recklessness which has destroyed any chance of his leaving the kind of legacy he so desired. I say this as someone who supported his attempt to establish universal healthcare, the lack of which is, if you please, a national sin. I also say this as someone who sees great irony in the possibility that he may become the first modern President to leave office, whether sooner or at the end of his term, without losing a soldier in direct military aggression. The irony being that, while he is now under attack somewhat justifiably for being a bad role model for our chidren, nevertheless, in another sense he also could go down in history in different and better light as a man who made love, of sorts, and not war. Which deserves some admiration in itself as well suggesting a re-consideration of a message of the 60's.

Nevertheless, as a Politician and President of all the people, he mis-read or failed to read, for one of the few times in his career, his constituency (Meaning all of the people, even the one's you think are wrong. Even if, in fact, they are wrong, because they are, nevertheless, still there creating whatever grief they may [especially if you give them some to create.] and that needs to be in the equation also.). And it has sandbagged him, his legacy, the Presidency, the nation, the marketplace, and beyond.

I also say this knowing that I would probably damn well enjoy meeting this genuinely likable guy at a party or pub..

Larry



To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (20379)9/13/1998 10:37:00 PM
From: Investor2  Respond to of 50167
 
Iqbal, I think most Americans are far more concerned about Clinton's lies under oath, which is a criminal act in this country, than his sexual escapades.

Best wishes,

I2