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Pastimes : Religion on SI -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Chris land who wrote (1088)	9/17/1998 11:40:00 AM
From: one_less	Respond to of 1542

Chris <<I don't understand how that can be possible since a Muslim does not believe that Jesus is the way the truth and the life and nobody gets to the Father except through Him.>> With respect Chris, you are thinking of Muslims from a Christian perspective. You don't have to believe us to see our perspective. I am not a scholar in religion or anything close, but I'll try. 1)We don't believe in God as a literal Father. We don't believe he is a human being sitting on a cloud someplace or anything comparable to that. He is beyond our descriptors because we are limited to analogies from our experiences in creation. Any descriptors we use would result in limit oriented descriptions. Because some Christians do believe in the literal father definition, most of us reject the term completely. We beleive in God the Creator, sustainer of ALL things. God is independant of Creation completely. All creations are temporal, God is eternal, and perfect in every sense. That is perfectly all powerful, all knowing etc. We are creations, and even in the Bible stories you are springing from it shows Jesus as a human creation with limitations. So, we don't call him God. 2) We do believe Jesus (Message) is the way the truth and the life. 3) We do believe he was given miracles from God. 4) We do believe that his message was to show his followers the path to God. 5) We do believe in the imaculate conception. 6) We do believe in the second coming. 7) There are so many things that can and are interpreted any way you want to in the Bible that I'm sorry to say if you are standing on main stream interpretation, you are standing on no standards. 8) One of the things that I remember from the new testament was when Jesus stated something like: To those of you who cast out demons and preach in my name, I will declare I never new you. That is not from Islam, it is from Christianity. So, I'm not saying it is necessarily part of the Muslim perspective. <<I don't believe any messengers made such bold declarations as Jesus did. It might be good to re-evaluate the authenticity of Jesus vs. the authenticy of Muhammed.>> OK, I see where you are coming from. This is the political possitioning that mainstream Christianity tends toward. "You're either with us, or against us, right?" So you want to put Muhammed on one side of the planet and Jesus on the other and in opposition. 1) I never said Jesus is not authentic. He definately is. I was refering to authentication of the written references to his life and his message and teachings that Christianity uses. I'm sure you know more about that than I do and thus you know it is problematic. 2) The two people definately, as you pointed out, had very different rolls with humanity. That still does not mean there is anything oppositional about them. Muslims don't beleive their is, ever was, or ever could be. I don't understand why the churches or the so called Islamic Nations think there should be. There is only one explanation that makes sense to me and that is the Geo-political one. It is totally referenced to realistate and expansion of social influence. No one so far has corrected me on this. To me the Geo-political perspective of the two religions is definately oppositional, predominant, and the most corrupting, evil influence on God's religion (whatever we label it) there is. 3) Something akin to the Golden Rule exists in Islam too. It says that in order to be worshiping God you have to love for your brother what you love for yourself. Although I fail often, I intend to worship God with everything I have, I pray for his mercy and forgiveness constantly. 4) Any thing in my posts on this thread that is untrue is from me and not from God and anything that I have offered that is true is from God and I take no credit for it. 5) May God guide us and have mercy on us. Amen