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Pastimes : and there was no one left to speak for me -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bill Jackson who wrote (223)	9/28/1998 9:31:00 PM
From: Yorikke	Respond to of 276

Well Bill, like I said there doesn't seem to be anyone being killed here on SI. I don't even think there is a lot of organized 'hounding' of individuals. Its a fairly nice place. So I for one am not looking for Nazis or any other group...To save or attack. I think I agree with you on most of what you said. If you reread my posts you will see that I don't advocate fighting windmills. I was trying to articulate how I, as an individual, feel about things, and how I sometimes react. And what I have found works for me. I'm not trying to advocate anything--except perhaps polite behavior. I ended my last post with what I feel are the things that work for me. I body surf because I like it. Its just me and the wave. I don't have to put up with anything else. The goal is a good drop, an occasional tube, a great roll out. And of course doing somthing that can be very dangerous if you screw up. What I was trying to get at in that particular paragraph was that we all choose to engage ourselves in aspects of our environment. Part of doing that is a need to know and understand the risks that are involved. If we ignore the risks we can get ourselves hurt. The body surfing metaphor was meant to show that on SI we are primarily responsible for ourselves...just like everywhere else. I mentioned stepping in when I see something I don't like. It is not out of a desire to help; but usually out of real disgust for what I see happening. I'm not advocating helping poor old SI'ers across the street. I just don't like to see crap thrown around; particularly on threads that I regularly visit. Believe me, I have rarely felt any better for doing that kind of thing, and usually far worse. When I mentioned the electronic battle stuff I believe I concluded that paragraph with a statement that I had no use for that kind of thinking. The implication was that what we see as inevitable is not necessarily what we agree with individually. And that polite behavior was often based on implied threat in the past. With regard to the Fable....in the Pacific it's a Rat and an Octopus. The rat shits on the Octopus' head. Explains why all octopus lures are shaped like rats. Violent? Well we are. Its a fact. I wasn't crying about it, just saying that that is one of the facts of the world we live in. It flows over into verbal aggressiveness. We have to deal with that and can not really limit it. As far as saving Nazi's. This is a kind of generalization that I have little patience with. First of most Americans regard all Germans who fought in WWII as Nazi's. Secondly the dividing line between the forces of Germany was not always clear. Some SS battalions were quite nasty and other were primarily battle units. In the latter part of the war the Elite named Battalions and some of the fighting SS battalions were reinforced with Volksdeutch conscripts and recruits, recruits that had served in horrible conditions and saw a chance to at least eat better. Finally some of these units were never deeply involved in anything but fighting while others found themselves doing a lot of behind the lines partisan fighting. And then there were all the actual barbaric things that really occurred. The point I'm making here is that when we let real people become symbols we loose sight of who they may have really been. Not much can convince me that some 19 year old German kid was the walking image of the devil himself. At 19 its very unlikely he ever really had a chance to practice evil as he was to busy learning what it was and being sacrificed at its alter. …there is a lot more to this than a paragraph..but I don't want to go into it. Read Guy Sager The Forgotten Solder. Like I said Bill, I think we pretty much agree. Reread my last few posts if you doubt that. regards, mnmuench