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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Rick Julian who wrote (25152)	10/3/1998 1:00:00 PM
From: Craig Richards	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Rick, Here's a description of Buddhism from shambhala.org. There's no mention of God here, and no requirement for belief in God for many Buddhist practices. In fact the last paragraph points to direct experience as being the most important part of the practice. Do you agree that Buddhist practice can be atheist spirituality? Craig Some 2,500 years ago, an Indian prince, Siddhartha Gautama, sat quietly in a place known as the Deer Park at Sarnath. In this quiet place, before a small assembly he began to offer simple teachings, based on his own experience. These teachings, referred to as the "dharma," meaning "truth," were practical instructions on how to relate to one's everyday experience of life and mind. Because his realization was profound, he became known as the "Buddha," which means "the awakened one." The teachings he offered came to be known as buddhadharma ("the teaching of the awakened one"), and ultimately as Buddhism. The Buddhist teachings proclaim the possibility of awakening the potential within every human being, and they provide a practical method for doing so. This practical method, passed down from generation to generation, is known as meditation, which is the practice of mindfulness and awareness. Meditation is a natural process of allowing oneself to examine the nature of thoughts, emotions and physical sensations, and to discover the inherent purity of one's being. It is a practice based on direct experience, rather than on blind belief.

To: Rick Julian who wrote (25152)	10/4/1998 11:23:00 AM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

I've been reading the past few days' posts with interest. Often in the past, I have skipped the religious discussions because they tend to be polarized and reiterative. I like the fact that no one here is getting angry but seems to realize that a lot of the problem in even beginning a discussion of this nature involves finding definitions for terms for which there are a great many meanings, not just semantically but personally and emotionally. But I'm again struck by how many people refuse to acknowledge that it is man who acts on his beliefs, that he has the choice to do good or harm, regardless of the particular structure. In the boxes of Christianity, or atheism, or paganism, or Buddhism are both the wicked and sublime. Individual truths are just that. And to preach one's own truth to someone else is usually unproductive. I'll hazard a guess here that what usually convinces people, especially those younger or less thoughtful, to accept a belief as their own is the desire to belong, to have what they see someone else has, to find "safety". Unfortunately, the nature of "belonging" carries the with it the idea of "exclusion" to those not believing, and that's where we get into trouble. As you so accurately pointed out, great beauty and wondrous achievements have come from religion. As Christine and Del point out, great pain has also been inflicted in the name of God. Unlike Christine, I do NOT think atheists are more tolerant than Christians. That type of assertion is unprovable and tolerance applies to many areas other than religion. There has been plenty of intolerance from everyone at times -enough to go around to Christians and atheists alike. Something else that struck me as I read, beginning with the post on Trail Magic and ending here with your question about atheism and spirituality. Often our personal definitions seem to become very narrow. For instance, I loved the idea of Trail Magic, but soon realized that how I interpreted it was completely different from others. George thought it was invasive and silly, but he took a very literal approach to it. Someone else saw it as being the joy of experiencing Acts of Kindness. I got carried away with it and saw what I love most about life-its serendipitous nature and the idea that we can not only find the magic but create it for others. All of these ideas were true, don't you think, each in its own way? But as usual, I've rambled- and have no idea if there was a point to all that-except that (oh yeah-I think this was where I meant to go)spirituality to me is a very broad thing. It is the realm of the invisible, the interior of us all. It's Jung's universal consciousness, it's Buddha's bellybotton, it's Christ on the cross, it's all the things we can't touch and see, but which are realities nonetheless, and make us so much more than animals--theists and atheists both. From the Upanishads: Spirit is the Good in all