Mark,
I really have a hard time with the fact we are having to discuss this.
First of all, please remember that I said responsible sexuality
OK, who gets to qualify responsible? You mean it needs to be an unmarried couple, middle teens, she on birth control, he promising to pull it out. etc etc etc ??? Who gets the judge job Mark?
I guess my wife is free to choose a lover, but I would then also be free to choose to no longer be married to her.
Yes, according to Jesus you could. (Matt. 19) You could also choose forgiveness.
I cant understand why anyone thinks its a sin. Why do you?
Mark, read a few things associated about fornication, and whoring, etc. etc. (our soft usa language and attitude makes this no different.)
2 Chron 21:
11 Moreover he made high places in the mountains of Judah, and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit fornication, and compelled Judah thereto.
12 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,
13 But hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and hast made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to go a whoring, like to the whoredoms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father's house, which were better than thyself:
look what happens Mark::
14 Behold, with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods:
15 And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day.
Does that sound like safe sex??
Isa. 23:
17 And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.
See what happens??
Isa 24:
24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.
That sound fun??
Ezek. 16:
26 Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.
See what happens:
27 Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee, and have diminished thine ordinary food, and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee, the daughters of the Philistines, which are ashamed of thy lewd way.
Doesn't that sound private?
Acts 15:
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
and Mark, what is this unrighteousness?? read on same chapter of Romans:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
See it Mark??
Again Paul tells the Corinthians:
1 Cor 6:
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Paul tells the Galatians:
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Do I need to go on?? Maybe we need to define fornication..
Holmans Bible Dictionary defines as such:
As a whole, the New Testament uses porneia, most often translated fornication, in at least four ways:
1. Voluntary sexual intercourse of an unmarried person with someone of the opposite sex (1 Cor. 7:2; 1 Thess. 4:3).
2. A synonym for adultery (Matt. 5:32; 19:9). See Adultery; Divorce.
3. Harlotry and prostitution (Rev. 2:14,20).
4. Various forms of unchastity (John 8:41; Acts 15:20; 1 Cor. 5:1).
So could we safely assume that two people not married going to bed together are committing fornication, and thereby seperating themselves from God. IF these ARE believers, are you happy they do this?
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