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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: E who wrote (25263)	10/6/1998 11:16:00 AM
From: Rick Julian	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

E, "...all theistically based moral systems nullify the quest for a rational morality . . ." Please tell me what is irrational about the 10 Commandments (using the Judeo-Christian model as an example). Aside from the first three which make an a priori assumption about a deity, the remaining seven appear to be sane, rational tenets for living a life which does no harm to other human beings, and encourages a harmonious existence: The remaining seven are: Thou shalt not: kill, lie, steal, commit adultery, lust after another's spouse, nor covet another's possessions. And one should honor one's parents. I am not aware of an equivalent code for living which has been offered by atheism. If one does exist, what is contained in it? If you too are not aware of one, please give it some thought yourself. If you had to compose the Atheist 10 Commandments what would they be? Codify your "reality-based system of social ethics, [your] humane morality." It may appear a simple exercise on the surface, but I think you'll find it difficult, and in your attempt, you may even find a respect for the genius and wisdom contained in the Judeo-Christian model--a model which is the fruit of deism. I also believe you take for granted the effect the deist's codes of morality have on your own life. You and your family were not born into a culture of moral and ethical vacuity. You live in a society whose mores are generally governed by the very ethics you contend are a charade. I suggest the moral charade you protest laid the groundwork for much of your own personal ethic--whether you admit it or not. I don't believe you, nor your parents, created a personal, reality based system from scratch--uninfluenced by the deist's code. At a minimum, I believe you owe the credulists some credit, or would you contend they composed their ethical credo inspite of their religiosity? (Remember, the 10 Commandments are represented as Divine Laws given to Moses by God.) I am still seeking to understand what atheists believe--what philosophical rock they stand on aside from their disbelief in a deity. Are atheist's lives an exercise in moral and ethical improvisation, or do they actually believe in a code that can be communicated and shared with others? Rick

To: E who wrote (25263)	10/6/1998 12:23:00 PM
From: Rick Julian	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

E, Credulists who justify their belief in a God entity because they "just know" he exists through personal, subjective mental/emotional experiences . . ." What do YOU really know, beyond your own "subjective mental/emotional experiences"? You know what science has proven, but what has science proven that is not subject to revision? Can Truths and Laws be revised? Do you or science "know" the nature of the animating force in the universe? You can point to its manifestations (effect), but can you explain the cause? This the most fundamental question of our existence. If science could "know" this, the doors to "reality" would be blown off their hinges. Yet science, the atheists' saviour, doesn't know. I believe few people (atheists included) "know" anything. One cannot truly know anything until one has personally verified a supposition. The beliefs of most people are a pastiche of what they have heard, or read, or been taught. We flatter ourselves by saying we intellectually "know" anything. Most of us can only purport to know what we directly perceive with our senses, and even then our senses can betray us. Yet I "know" when I love and am loved, and I "know" love exists. Knowledge is rather paradoxical don't you think? Rick