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To: Bob Myers who wrote (261)	10/8/1998 1:17:00 PM
From: Steve Cox	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 352

Bob, Maybe there is a tradeoff. Example: Bursitis. Cortizone shots are taken to alleviate the pain although it is told it destroys the cartilidge. In arthritis, pain suffers go with the sulphates probably unaware of the harmful feeding frenzy aiding the bad bacteria in the GI tract. Don't know if it is mentioned in the book you referenced about the side effects of putting sulphates into the body. Even if people are aware of the problem; if the treatment gets rid of the pain they may overlook the potential other problems just like the cortizone. Steve

To: Bob Myers who wrote (261)	10/8/1998 5:29:00 PM
From: mark cox	Respond to of 352

Bob, here is the link to the article on the sulphur eating bacteria. newscientist.com On your question concerning the sulphur bacteria, the sulphur supplements and arthritis. First, it is not the actual sulphur that causes arthritis, it is caused by an increase in intestinal permeability which is caused by the sulphur digesting bacteria which got out of control because of the high amounts of sulphur in the intestines to feed them. It is very important to understand what the intestinal permeability is as I stated in my long winded post. I am sure that you as well as everyone else has heard the saying " treating the symptom and not the cause. An example would be a person with an ulcer taking antacids for years because it relieves the pain and acid indigestion but does nothing to eradicate the cause of the ulcer, the 'Heliobacteria pylori' bacteria that is attached to the wall of the stomach. A multiple treatment of antibiotics will cure 80% of all ulcers but doctors like to tell patients to take Tagament. This is a good example of treating the symptom and not the cause. Back to the arthritis. Most drugs used for the treatment of arthritis target the symptoms, inflammation and pain. The newer drugs actually block the mechanisms in the body by messing around with proteins. But still they are not treating the actual item that causes the swelling to begin with. I'm not saying that I know what that cause is but one of the theories is that pieces of dead bacteria that pass thru the intestinal wall because of increased permeability tend to collect in the joint tissues of the body. Once they are there in suffcient quantities, the immune system mounts an attack which causes the swelling. This appears that that the immune system is attacking the joint. The compounds you mentioned, Glucosamine sulfate and Condroitan sulfate may interfere with the inflamation process or the transmitting of pain signals, I have absolutely no idea. But if a person's arthritis was caused by those sulphur loving bacteria and they were to use those sulfate compounds, then they would be lessening the symptoms while feeding the cause. A catch 22 if you will. The point I am trying to make is, if a person has an altered microflora from antibiotics, chemicals, chlorinated water, stress, alcohol, drugs etc., then some of the pathogenic bacteria can become dominant and over grow in the intestines causing an increase in intestinal permeability. This could be the cause of many diseases like lupus, arthritis, eczema to name a few. Not only can pieces of bacteria get thru the intestinal wall and into the blood stream, but also the toxic by-products that they secrete. Basically this is a constant flow of poison into the blood stream. I have read many articles that show that probiotics can help maintain our microflora. If we have a healthy microflora then we won't develop increased permeability from pathogenic bacteria and yeasts. This just might help to prevent the development of many diseases. It is proven that certain probiotics increase the levels of interferon that our immune systems excrete. A strong immune system combined with normal intestinal permeability will no doubt help to maintain good health. That is basically what I was trying to put out about taking probiotics. If you have any other questions I'd be happy to try to answer them. Mark

To: Bob Myers who wrote (261)	10/10/1998 10:43:00 PM
From: mark cox	Respond to of 352

Bob, here are two articles about arthritis possibly being caused by increased intestinal permeability and bacteria: fragments of dead bacteria may leak into the wall of the intestine or into the blood stream due to a breakdown in the mechanisms which regulate intestinal permeability. Circulating through the body, bacterial debris is deposited in tissues such as joints, provoking an attack on those tissues by an immune system trying to remove the foreign material. mdheal.org Arthritis and Ankylosing Spondylitis Immunologic responses to gut flora have been advanced by several authors as important factors in the pathogenesis of inflammatory joint diseases. It is well-known that reactive arthritis can be acti- vated by intestinal infections with Yersinia, Salmonella and other enterobacteria(35). In some cases bacterial antigens have been found in synovial cells(36,37) and may enter the circulation because of the increased intestinal permeability associated with the intestinal infec- tion(l5). Increased intestinal permeability and immune responses to bacterial debris may cause other types of inflammatory joint disease as well. healthy.net Mark