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Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Machaon who wrote (8745)	10/10/1998 10:26:00 AM
From: Who, me?	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

<<Now, how do you feel about "do it yourself" abortion kits? Would you like me to send you some, so that you can pass them out to your friend(s)?>> Is this statement supposed to upset me? You want to know what upsets me? Here, read this!!! This should warm your heart!!! Dumped Fetuses Released for Burial By CLAIRE VITUCCI Associated Press Writer LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Aborted fetuses found dumped in a field have been given to anti-abortion groups for Christian burials, a move critics say violates the separation of church and state. San Bernardino County Coroner Brian McCormick released the remains of the 54 fetuses Friday over objections from American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California officials, who said they may take legal action. The religious groups named and provided a casket for each fetus. They planned weekend ceremonies at several churches and a service at a family planning clinic. Interment is planned at a Riverside cemetery, which donated three plots. The fetuses were found last year in cardboard boxes in a county field. Authorities traced the fetuses back to a Los Angeles abortion clinic, which has since been closed. A truck driver for the clinic served 71 days in jail for dumping the fetuses. Religious groups petitioned the coroner's office to release the fetuses for burial after the criminal investigation was completed. The ACLU had urged McCormick not to release the remains. ''It is more than just the appearance of the state sanctioning a particular religious belief,'' said associate director Elizabeth Schroeder. ''Under California law there is only one way to dispose of this material ... that would be by incineration.'' Schroeder said the coroner's office ignored a 1984 California Court of Appeals decision. The court ruled the Los Angeles County district attorney's office violated the separation of church and state when it proposed to bury 16,500 fetal remains with religious ceremonies. AP-NY-10-10-98 0513EDT newsday.com

To: Machaon who wrote (8745)	10/10/1998 10:30:00 AM
From: mrknowitall	Respond to of 67261

Robert: "Once the RR gains control, it will take a few years of religious persecution, of the minority religions, and of draconian measures implemented by the RR, who don't have a clue about the real world, before there will be a voter backlash that will cause significant harm to the RR movement." Would you elaborate on the persecution of minority religions? What steps can a congress take, given the amendment to the constitution that specifically prohibits congress from doing that? Please be somewhat specific. While your at it, please outline one or more of those "draconian" measures you are so confident they can ramrod through without hindrance. Spare us the generalisms, fear-mongering, scapegoating and anti-religious dogma - try facts to shed some light on your allegations. Mr. K.

To: Machaon who wrote (8745)	10/10/1998 12:09:00 PM
From: jbe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

Bob, even though I am no friend of Pat Robertson & Co., I think you are over-reacting to the "threat" posed by the RR. 1) In just about every modern democracy, "extremists" of left & right are supported by about 15%, 20% of the population. That proportion seems fairly stable, and I see no real reason to believe it will change radically (unless we find ourselves in the midst of a world depression, in which case, all bets are off). 2) Of course, a determined minority that knows how to lobby (and that has lots of cash) can get parts of its minimum program enacted - but only those parts of it that have broad support within the non-RR public as well. We need never fear that the United States will introduce elements of the RR's maximum program: for example, the death penalty (by stoning) for adultery and heresy, as indeed some on the Religious Right DO advocate. Meanwhile, as Who Me quite rightly points out, the only way to "stop the juggernaut" is to organize & get your voters out.. 3) It is a mistake to demonize the self-described "conservatives" or "fundamentalist Christians" on this thread, or any other one. Just because they describe themselves that way does not mean that they necessarily support all the positions of the Christian Coalition, for example, or any other "Christian" political group. They may even reject some of those positions. Or they may not even know what those positions are. When you, and others here, assume that they are all the storm troopers of the RR, you are doing the same thing that they tend to do, which is to assume that the rest of us here are the storm troopers of the Mythical Yet Evil Democratic-Liberal Left. As a result, we spend much of our time fencing with imaginary opponents... jbe