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Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (9055)	10/12/1998 3:07:00 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

I'm not speaking for Bill V. or any of the other people on this board that I sometimes get grouped with. <<Do you think every "womanizer" type guy is an abuser etc. Ex. all these sports guys and businessmen that have power so to speak. Are they all more or less rapists in your eyes?>> There are innocent people who suffer for the actions of these guys. I don't know the details of every situation so I don't know the specifics of who and how people are hurt in each case. The only time this is not apparent is during a time when the two people involved are describing their relationship as something "very special." That means the relationship is not subject to the social fix that the rest of the world is caught up in. In order for the "very special" identity of the relationship to hold water, the two people have to encapsulate themselves from the rest of the world. If their relationship touches, their children, spouses, other girl friends, parents, etc., the specialness quality no longer applies. The same entanglements of affairs discribed throughout history come into play. Sometimes people try to encapsulate such relationships by keeping them private, secret from the other members of their intimate circle. In most marriages, and other long term relationships, the partners share personal history, occupational accomplishments, stories of world travel and other culturally experiences. Both partners are enriched by learning of the depths of personality of their closest intimate relation. These things are enriching both to share and to hear about. Sharing about sexual encounters, conquests, etc. do not have a reputation of enrichment in the private relations of the two people. Why not? Is it because it creates division, jealousy, feelings of loss to the primary relationship? Rape is a violent crime. The situation of the "womanizer" type guy you discribed is one that lacks consideration. The consideration to each and every person that has any bond of affection for one or the other of the people involved is rarely, if ever an issue for the primary couple. So, is lack of consideration equal to rape more or less. Actually, the more or less degree would depend on the motives of the participants. If the motive of one of them is to hurt a third party by imposing a relationship that would cause serious emotional trama, that the third party has no say in; I would say yes, that's not exactly rape but it is something more like rape and less like a private affair. At the least degree you could say the one or both of the partners in the situation you describe, do not care, whether or not other people suffer as a result of their actions and aren't concerned about third party effects. Also, in the situation you posed there are always third parties, because there are the dumpers and dumpees of the previous relationship and the one that is to come. So, does this add up to abuser, etc.? When you as a woman talk about guys like this, I have a feeling you see them through feminine eyes. My apologies ahead of time for affending you and others for my opinion that follows. Boys and men who live like this see each relationship as a conquest. Once they've scored on what ever they were after, they are ready to move on. Women in these situations generally see themselves sharing something of great value that is going to endear the man to her, leading to deeper and deeper levels of commitment. I like Michael Douglas movies.

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (9055)	10/12/1998 3:26:00 PM
From: Bill	Respond to of 67261

No, not every womanizer is an abuser. But the President is. I just think men with power should use it wisely.

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (9055)	10/12/1998 3:57:00 PM
From: Volsi Mimir	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

Power is an aphrodisiac over coming self control. If one doesn't have the convictions and inner strength capable of mastering power then one becomes the slave to that and replaces what is right with what one can do. Many people fall from grace from this and it doesn't have to be from wealth or fame. It has to do with social circles and every one has their price and who is on top and who is willing to do for it. Both men and women are equally capable in this. Those in the headlines amplify and exemplify that part of human nature. And it doesn't have to be about sex only. I feel power for sex is a sport. Maybe it'll be on ESPN. Its already on CSPAN and 5 oclock News. Rape is not sex. It is the power to abuse. The punishment should fit the crime- death. Someday that also will be commonly shown to the viewing masses. E7

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (9055)	10/12/1998 4:16:00 PM
From: mrknowitall	Respond to of 67261

Michelle - I think any man who chases women (serious pursuits, not just flirting) while he is married is an abuser - of his wife, family and friends. The sexual partner in the affair may or may not be abused. What you're really dealing with is not just a sex issue and not as simple as just the power of being able to make a sexual conquest -- in the case of men like Clinton it is the power to get away with something that you can only get away with in your position of power. When that power is challenged, i.e., by a lawsuit, the person who still believes in his (or her) invincibility may, as Clinton did, simply dismiss the viability of the claimant and delude himself into then putting his interests above that of the law. We see a similar, but not identical, situation with sports figures, but in their cases, I believe most of them are much younger, not as well educated, and are surrounded by role-models that may also engage in those kinds of behaviors. IMO, the Hollywood glamour life is full of so many egomaniacs and flaky personalities that it isn't surprising to see predatory sexual behavior. Mr. K.