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To: Little Engine who wrote (29898)	10/21/1998 2:24:00 PM
From: kennbill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 50264

Little Dunce.... you don't need a license to surf the Internet (get real)... you need a license to provide the service... Your comments border on incompetence.

To: Little Engine who wrote (29898)	10/21/1998 2:51:00 PM
From: Lazarus Long	Respond to of 50264

Actually, I don't believe that... Digitcom (the company) made the claim... >>I used it since Digitcom claimed that there were only 15 "ISP licenses"<< Though, until recently, I thought they had. I have searched the PR's and the Newsletters and I do not see where they mention 15 licenses. Here is a link to a copy of the PR. exchange2000.com I believe that this number has been bandied about on the thread because of an older article we found that reported 10/97 information. Lazarus

To: Little Engine who wrote (29898)	10/21/1998 2:57:00 PM
From: Howard C.	Respond to of 50264

You know, doing relevant DD is fine, but how in the world do people have the time or interest to investigate the most obscure, inane, worthless piece of information I could possibly imagine is a mystery to me. Well, my conclusion is, that you found out that all the other claims made in the past were so perfect that you had to dig really deep to find a problem. Was that it?

To: Little Engine who wrote (29898)	10/21/1998 3:33:00 PM
From: E'Lane	Respond to of 50264

Lil e, <<I used it since Digitcom claimed that there were only 15 "ISP licenses" (you need a license to surf the Internet?) available in Indonesia, and that they had secured the "last one.">> Could you please provide the link to this "claim". I have been fruitlessly searching for this. I assume you would not have repeatedly brought this to our attention if you didn't have that company PR handy. TIA Big E Edited: To use your words... <<Lil e, I am impressed by your grasp of Digitcom's Claims... Perhaps you could reproduce that section here?>>

To: Little Engine who wrote (29898)	10/21/1998 4:04:00 PM
From: Rob W	Respond to of 50264

"I used it since Digitcom claimed that there were only 15 "ISP licenses" (you need a license to surf the Internet?) available in Indonesia, and that they had secured the "last one." I also looked through all the PR's and I could not find an official statement from the company to support the claim you wish to attribute to them. If I missed it, I am sorry. I did find a statement that there were only 15 ISPs operational in Indonesia. The statement however was not made by Digitcom, but by the United State Department of Commerce. What the Department of Commerce based that statement on, I don't know. But assuming it is true, I suspect there is a universe of ISP's licensed to operate as such in Indonesia, and of this number, whatever it is, there is a subset that is fully operational, again I have no idea what that number is. Well that is not true, I have talked to some officials and have an idea, but I'd rather not comment until I have better information. And if the Department of Commerce is wrong, I don't believe it would be fair to attribute that mistake to Digitcom. I also believe the 3/27/98 PR says something to the effect that no more licenses are expected to be issued at this time." From this I would assume "the time" refers to the time when the statement was made, 3/27/98. After that things may change. Words like "expected" and "anticpated" generally mean there is flexibility. Usually used to convey a sentiment, but from a practical matter, not very binding. Digitcom, in a latter press release did say something about having one of a "handful" ISP licenses. I suspect if we compared the number of ISPs in indonesia to the number in the United States, the amount in Indonesia would seem small, perhaps a handful. Maybe in the opinion of Digitcom, the total amount, regardless of the number, is a handful. Or maybe the Commerce report is true, and since Digitcom officials are aware of operating conditions, their statement may be in that context, e.g, not referring to the total of licensed entities, but to the functional ones. I also want to apologize to you, because about 2 posts ago I snipped at you about your research skill. That has bothered me, and in hindsight I wish I had passed rather than pointing out a deficiency. For the most part, we are all average folks, but I suspect there are a few sharks swimming among us. I think of them as the hype shark and the basher shark and of the two, I fear the hype shark the most, but I don't respect either. But anybody who posts information they believe to be true and relevant for discussion purposes I welcome. That is why I questioned the relevance of 15 ISPs. If you come back and point me to a PR making that claim, I'll be happy as I will have learned something I didn't know before. If you can't, then perhaps you'll be happy as you can stop making a claim that you thought to be true. Best Regards.

To: Little Engine who wrote (29898)	10/21/1998 5:43:00 PM
From: MARK C.	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 50264

Your an Idiot. Show me the # of one post where you personally uncovered DGIV saying there where only 15 ISP's in Indonesia ? I posted this info to you because I found it in a press release, after which you responded. Get your facts straight BOY. MarkC.

To: Little Engine who wrote (29898)	10/21/1998 11:26:00 PM
From: Rob W	Respond to of 50264

I also don't agree with your thinking about licensure revenues. Your take is, "With the depression that's hit Indonesia, they are not going to start restricting licensing revenues." First, I have no expertise in this area, but my first thought is more along the lines of protecting what you currently have. In many cases, the industry being regulated has a disproportionate say in matters that effect them. Indonesia does have an association, and I suspect it exists for more than just monthly tea parties. I would think that in difficult times, those who have approval to do business want least is more competition. From the government's point of view, it might prosper more if it has fewer entities doing well, than a larger number doing not so well. For example, in the area of health care, many State's have certificate of need laws say for the construction of nursing homes. Current homes usually don't complain, as they benefit from the restriction in competition. Plus there are associations that represent the industry and they certainly have a say in how the laws are drafted. If you look at a few, you can usually find a grandfather clause that allows current entities to expand capacity within limits without have to be reviewed. Keep in mind I don't know a thing about Indonesia's government structure, how much licensure fees are, how they are paid etc, but if the number of licensed entities is around 42, and the number has been relatively stable over time, I don't think the fees from licensure will be meaningful in the big picture of things. However the process is interesting an worth looking into. Best Regards