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Strategies & Market Trends : The Final Frontier - Online Remote Trading -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TFF who wrote (5624)	11/2/1998 11:02:00 AM
From: steve goldman	Respond to of 12617

Bazooka..I addressed your questions below: A follow up regarding the post on various exchanges quotes: Another issue that comes up often is Opening prices. On a listed exchange, the specialist matches buyers to sellers, looks at the book, finds a price and then opens the stock in one piece, everyone on the books at those prices and market buy AND market sells all get filled at one price. Eveyrone is matched off at the same price. So , on listed stocks, you can say that there is a definative open on the NYSE. type MU.N and you will see the opening on the NYSE. Scroll back in Times and Sales and you'll see one monster print. This is where any market buy or market sale, assuming the broker isnt working the order, would have gotten filled. The NASDAQ is much more difficult. My feeling is that putting up a quote on a OTC stock and trying to surmise something about the opening print is useless. Since there is no matching off, bulk piece, everyone getting filled at the smae time, is it the opening bid, should it be the opening offer? Was it the first print, on the bid, offer or somewhere inbetween or outside the quote that goes up at exactly 9:30:00Am? So is there a race to put up a print? A higher print or a low print? My conclusion....take nothing from the opening price on an OTC stock, rather look at the opening bid or offer. that is a stock that opens 83 1/2 but opens 83 1/4 to 84. A market buy order does NOT mean you are entitled to 83 1/2. If you firm was bidding on SNET (thus not shown) and got 83 1/2 for you great. If you get 84 but look at the open and complain that you didnt get 83 1/2, then you havent understood how the NASD trades. You might not even get 84 if there is stock ahead. Unlike the NYSE, the NASDAQ is a negotiated market. More food for thought... Bazooka... >" i decided to split the spread and i offered at 97 11/16 (via super >dot). i immediately got a fill at 97 1/2; which was 3/16 below my >limit. how can i be filled below my limit? am i missing something? " Something is wrong. You cannot get a fill below your limit on the sell side. We routinely get improvements (greater than onsell sides and less than on buy sides) but you wouldnt be complaining about that. Absolutely you have recourse. Print out your log. Fax to them and ask to bust it. Did it go through your 11/16 limit? I see its lower now, so be careful. Dont shake a hornets nest if you dont want to get stung. But if it did infact clearly and unequivocably go through you 11/16, they should but that trade and change it to 11/16. I cant stress again the importance of making sure it went higher! give yourself some room...if it didnt go 1/4 or so higher, they might claim they didnt display your offer, etc. yata yata and you now have a stock four points lower.... Email me the times and sales if you can. "would this be backing away by an mm? i saw trades going off at 83 3/8 for a long time before i was eventually filled on the bid. the inside mm never budged from his offer the entire time all the way into the close. what do you make of this?" Tough call. Let me start with what happened. If you were a mm, would you want to get stock taken with 10 seconds to the bell? As well, there might have been an influx of orders to cover shorts, bargain hunters, etc. momentum traders trying for an overnight gap, etc. Whatever the case, the mm doesnt want to get picked off at the bell. He probably did stock away and then changed his quote. He gets a reasonable period of time to change the quote. I sometimes will pursue a backing away complaint (resolved in 5 minutes) but usually if they are on the bid /ask and since you said you saw prints, they probably did stock "away' from your, ahead of you, and had no liability since they were in the process of updating quote or working stock at their quote. On a different note, in the future, this is exactly where an autofill system, such as the few we utilize and offer clients , would ahve gotten you the fill. As well, this is exactly where a trading desk that will call the mm will come in handy. You get MASH, NITE,etc. on the phone they wont back away. The relationship with the firm is too important. Regards, Steve