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To: The Phoenix who wrote (19284)	11/13/1998 10:14:00 AM
From: ToySoldier	Respond to of 77400

Gary, As for your first question... If an IT manager is integrating all the "IT components" into their DS what would those components be? Look at my last posting to you. I just listed a pile of components to you. I guess you didnt read my entire posting. But again, a few examples are: Custom L-O-B applications Canned Applications (i.e. Peoplesoft SAP) NT servers Cisco routers / switches 3Com Switches / routers NetWare servers PBXs equipment SNA host and gateways SW distribution software Internet Firewalls Business Rules and policies to be enforced Connected Desktop and laptops Unix systems Messaging systems and associated logic Users of the organization External users to the organization I can go on if you wish, but I think you get my meaning. BTW - the majority of the example list that I have provided you is already possible in NDS. How much of this is possible with AD (oops - thats a non-existent product)? What I find ironic is that in the previous quote above you ask a basic question about DS and then you make the following statement... BTW: I'm probably one of the last people here that need an education on directories.... kind of funny that you did that for me. Based on your question, you might need an education, or, did you already know all that and your trying to make some point that I haven't caught on to? The other thing you dont seem to be grasping here Gary is that a DS is not simply a management tool that provides central configuration information to a wide variety of IT and business components. The DS provides the framework to link the personna of each object in the tree and relates the level and type of interaction between each object in the tree (i.e. who has rights to what - what has rights to what, what effective restrictions/rights does any object have when relating to any other object). Lets go on to your next questions (funny that you still havent answered my questions)... Do you think and IT director will bring down an entire network...albeit in peices to reinstall new networking equipment. Do you think the CFO will pay for it? Do you think the users will stand for it give that it might already be functioning fine...not to mention the ongoing headaches of tuning. These statements Gary are taken right out of the MSFT FUD education process. My answer to all these questions is YES! YES! YES! Companies are doing it all the time. Routers and switches in a large organization need to be upgraded constantly (I know since one thing our group constantly is involved in with our customers is upgrading and migration of network infrastructure like routers and switches). With proper plans and process, upgrading and even migration of network hardware is performed regularly. So dont make it sound like once a network component is in place it is left alone forever and ever! Not real world Gary. I dont know your experiences but I know my customers' experiences and it happens ALL THE TIME. In fact, based on your statement, Cisco will not be making too many sales since you are saying that these network components never need nor can be upgraded. What can be upgraded - can be migrated! This is not the case for a DS. Customer who have taken years to integrated all their IT and business components into a common Directory Service WILL NOT throw that all away in order to preserve a Cisco network hardware standard (a few customers might but there are always exceptions in this world). I'm sorry Gary but Cisco equipment is just not as important to delivering on overall Business Objectives as is a Directory Service. Unlike a DS, routers and switches (and almost all network hardware) are very quickly becoming a commodity. But, clearly you and I will not agree on this. You have this belief that Cisco equipment is THE MOST important components in an IT shop and business. Let me put you belief in some perspective... Information can live without a network - a network is useless without a business! Cisco=Network / DS=information. Both need each other do do an effective job, but remember which is more critical to a Business! Toy