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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dayuhan who wrote (26077)	11/21/1998 2:51:00 AM
From: Krowbar	Respond to of 108807

Speaking of those who don't deserve sainthood.... Pope Pushing WW II Mass Murderer for Sainthood November 1998 "Pope John Paul II's recent visit to Croatia was highlighted by the beatification of Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac.Beatification is a middle step toward canonization or sainthood. Such an honor illustrated the Vatican's brash willingness to ignore the truth and revise history to suit their agenda. Stepinac was archbishop of Zagreb during World War II. When Hitler conquered Yugoslavia, he set up a puppet government in Croatia called the Ustachi, headed by Roman Catholic Ante Pavelic. Pavelic immediately set about establishing an ethnically and religiously pure Catholic Croatian state. Along with the Jews and Gypsies, all non-Roman Catholics were to be purged from the land. The largest unwelcome group was about two million Eastern Orthodox Serbs. Stepinac and other Catholic leaders gave their blessing to the "ethnic cleansing." The leaders bragged that they would kill a third of them, convert a third to Roman Catholicism, and run the other third out of the country. In the following years, they executed their plan and some 700,000 were butchered, buried alive, raped, locked in their churches which were then torched, mutilated with axes, saws or other household tools, impaled on stakes driven into the ground, or thrown into the rivers and lakes. Hundreds of thousands confessed conversion to avoid such torturous deaths while many more fled the country. By the time Hitler's domain was crushed, no Jews were left in the country and few other minorities remained. Through the whole process, Stepinac gave his blessing to the Pavelic government's actions. He is seen frequently in photos of the leadership. Many of the Catholic clergy donned Ustachi military uniforms and participated in the bloodshed. After the war, Pavelic was given asylum in the Vatican and eventually was spirited to Argentina. Later, he returned to Europe where he died in a Franciscan monastery. Thanks to Vatican intervention, he totally escaped prosecution as a war criminal for the Ustashi massacres. His partner in crime, Stepinac, refused to leave Croatia when the communist Yugoslav nation was formed under Marshal Tito. He was arrested and sentenced to 16 years in prison. He was later released to house arrest and died in 1960. Vatican propaganda began immediately upon his arrest and trial to position Stepinac as a "martyr" suffering for his faith. Over the years, history has been revised to turn him from a collaborator in the Croatian holocaust, into a saint, unjustly persecuted by the communists for his unwavering faith and loyalty to the Vatican." Undoubtedly this new saint will be reported by our "liberal" press with no "sensitive" questions asked. It wouldn't be polite, would it? Del

To: Dayuhan who wrote (26077)	11/24/1998 3:01:00 PM
From: Rick Julian	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Steven, At least you admitted it was a "lazy answer" " This is what happened to the early Chistians; it led to a conception of personal holiness as something quite independent of beneficient action, since holiness had to be something that could be achieved by people who were impotent in action. Social virtue came therefore to be excluded from Christian ethics.. . .I do not believe that there is a single saint in the whole calendar whose saintship is due to work of public utility." - Bertrand Russell I ask you to judge the veracity of Russel's contention based on only two examples: St. Jerome Emiliani: " . . .after the war, all the loved ones who would have protected them [the orphans] and comforted them had been taken by sickness or starvation. He would become their parent, their family. Using his own money, he rented a house for the orphans, fed them, clothed them, and educated them..." St. Sebastian: " . . .among many other deeds of service and healing, he healed Nicostratus, and his wife, Zoe, a deaf mute whom he cured; the jailer Claudius; Chromatius, Prefect of Rome, whom he cured of gout; and Chromatius' son, Tiburtius. Soon thereafter, affected by his experience with St. Sebastian, Chromatius set the prisoners free, freed his slaves, and resigned as prefect..." Russel was intellectually brilliant, yet woefully uninformed regarding matters of spirituality, and on this specific point, was simply wrong. Even in our own time, most of us have heard of the works of Mother Theresa (a future saint): comforting, clothing, and feeding the poorest of the poor. Russel's bias is so extreme, it obviates most, if not all, of his conclusions in these matters. Russel appears to spout conclusions on spirituality and religiosity which are based on experiments he himself hasn't even performed. This strikes me as the definition of a "dilettante". Rick