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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: PROLIFE who wrote (22301)	11/21/1998 9:27:00 PM
From: Darrin Vernier	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Dan, "41 He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground." Our body is but a vessel for the spirit. Call it a pot, a cup, a grail, it is all the same. And it is not us. He was praying that God help him remove his believe in his body. As he did so, the false prophet of the temple itself was removed, and the spirit which dwelled within was exposed as the angel (spirit) that he was. When he saw that truth of God that was revealed as he began to remove his belief in his body, he was anguished for all the time that he had wasted believing in his body. He redoubled his efforts to remove this belief from him. His sweat poured like blood because the belief in body (blood) was being replaced by the belief in spirit (water). "Do you assume He was praying about the fear of dying, or maybe it was that He would be separated from His Father" No, he is not praying about the fear of dying, he is telling us how to remove the belief in it, and thus its power. He was not fearing being separated from the Father, but joining with him, and seeing him clearly for the first time. It is the belief in death and fear that would separate us from God. Maybe you see something similar here, and I am too ignorant to see it in your words. Whichever way my ignorance lies, I'm sure you will point it out soon enough, and I thank you for that. : ) Peace, Darrin

To: PROLIFE who wrote (22301)	11/21/1998 9:51:00 PM
From: Sam Ferguson	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Since thanksgiving is next week let me read you a little prayer based upon this idea of right. I heard it offered as a thanksgiving tribute. "Oh, God, we do thank thee that thou didst give thy only son to die for us! We thank thee that the innocent has suffered for the guilty, and that through the suffering and death of thy most holy son our sins are blotted out!" Monstrous! How would that work in a court of justice? What would you think of a person who coolly thanked a judge who had knowingly allowed the wrong man to be hung? What do you think of a code of morals that offers as one of its beautiful provisions the murder of the innocent instead of the punishment of the guilty? People ask what good I expect to come of an attack on Christianity. They ask me if I think Christianity does any direct harm. Yes! It makes a man unjust to believe in unjust doctrines. Any man who honestly believes in the righteousness of a system of vicarious rewards and punishments is ripe for any form of tyranny. And the more honestly he believes in it the less will he be a good man from principle. I want men and women to be good and true because it is right towards each other, and not because they are afraid of Hell. Honor towards people in this world, not fear of a fiend in the next -- that is my doctrine. That is the way to make men and women strong and brave and noble. Stop telling them they can't be good themselves; teach them that they must do right themselves. Make them self-dependent. Teach them to stand alone. Honor towards others, kindness, and love -- these are what make a man a good husband, a noble father -- king in his household. Fear never made any man a gentleman. Fear never made any woman a true wife or a good mother. Fear never covered the pitfalls of vice with anything stronger than the gloss of hypocrisy. When Reason's torch burned low, Faith led her victims by chains of ignorance into the land of hopeless superstition, and built her temple there. "Do you assume He was praying about the fear of dying, or maybe it was that He would be separated from His Father?" First there isn't a fact he existed except as fiction. Next since he and the father were one God was killed with him. How would it separate him? Was he attempting to sway God since Moses told God what to do in repenting and God obeyed him. Did he consider himself as powerful as Moses. Why didn't he just perform a miracle and stop the Roman army. And the question of questions no one has answered: IF JESUS AND GOD WERE ONE DID HE JUST LEAVE GOD DEAD WHEN HE SUPPOSEDLY CAME BACK TO LIFE? OR DID HE FIGURE GOD WASN'T IMPORTANT SINCE HE WAS NOW THE SAVIOR? YOUR THEOLOGY IS AS WARPED AS YOUR MIND. FAITHFUL DAN. factual sam.eom