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Microcap & Penny Stocks : DCI Telecommunications - DCTC Today -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Steven R. Bergman who wrote (11758)	11/28/1998 7:41:00 PM
From: JOE MEDSKER	Respond to of 19331

SRB, <<<<If the trustees must legally have the shares (they must, mustn't they, or else why wouldn't we ask our trustees to request them on our behalf?)>>>> The main problem with requesting certificates from an IRA account is that the IRS will deem the act a distribution. You would be liable for taxes on the value of the shares when the certificate leaves the IRA account. If you are under 59 1/2 you would also be subject to a 10% penalty. If you are the trustee of your own Keogh, profit sharing or pension plan you could request the certificate and it would not be considered a distribution. In other words it is OK. <<<<wouldn't a request for a running total of those (tax-deferred) shares unavailable for certs yield equally useful information?>>>> To make this information a valuable part of the equation we would have to have 100% support from all the shareholders. We would have to know exactly the total number of shares in IRA accounts. I believe that would be impossible to attain by simply requesting the information on this thread or through my DCI e-mail list. <<<<I have similarly inferred that these shares are not legally loanable, either, and hence are not being counted.>>>> As I understand the law you are correct but in the real world of dealings between the brokers and Market makers the rules are bent and broken big time. I know of one clearing firm that should have over one million shares of DCI on their books. Of that one million, 89,000 are in IRA accounts. As of Friday of last week the dtc position report showed them having only 63,000 TOTAL shares credited to their account. Not only are they short about 975,000 shares they don't even have enough to cover the IRA's. By the way, don't count on the SEC to do anything about it. Please keep in mind that IMO not a single American broker has loaned out any shares of DCI. That is in violation of the rules. What has caused the big short position is when we were all buying during the summer our brokers did not request delivery of good paper. Instead they took option B which is a payment of 1-5 cents per share per month. Don't bother to check your statement for this cash because your broker does not share it with you. How do you think the big boys at the big firms collect their million dollar bonus at year end. So you see, the shares were really never loaned out. How can you loan out something you don't have. You could call your broker and request they take delivery and all you will get is lip service. 99% of all the reps have now idea what a position report is much less have access to it. Best Regards

To: Steven R. Bergman who wrote (11758)	11/29/1998 11:40:00 AM
From: Colin Cody	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 19331

if a company has 25 million shares outstanding and 5 million of them are held in tax-deferred accounts, and there is any way to ensure that tax-deferred shares are not loaned to the shorts, then it seems to me it'd be very useful to be able to add the number of tax-deferred shares to the "certified" ones to get closer to being able to determine what the actual legally loanable number of shares really is. I presume there's a basic truth relative to to the loanability of tax-deferred shares of which I'm simply ignorant. Can anyone enlighten me? Your confusion is because anyone is allowed to post their thoughts and not everyone knows what they are talking about, and of those who DO know what they are talking about some are telling the truth and others have their own agenda to mislead. As you can see, the odds can be stacked against you if you are not already up to speed! (g) "Readers beware" is always the cautionary watchword with internet investment discussions. There is basically very little difference to a Company if the stock was purchased by an IRA or by an individual. Not the least of which is by the fact that relatively FEW shares of a Company are held there. Each share gets a vote. Each share is worth the same. Each share is easily transferable into or out of an IRA. So for most practical purposes there IS NO DIFFERENCE. The shares of DCI, specifically are NOT loanable shares, the fact that they are not in IRAs (which are never "loanable" to the public) notwithstanding. The reason DCTC is not loanable (to other parties) has to do with the fact that they MAY NOT be held in "Type 2" accounts, by law. The law says a stock traded on the OTC-BB MAY NOT be held in a "Type 2" account. This bothers many people. If the Company's shares were traded elsewhere they MAY VERY WELL BE "loanable" but if on the OTC-BB they simply are not loanable. Now "loanable" means some stranger borrowing those shares so he can sell them "short." "Loanable" in the above does not mean taking a temporary loan from your IRA of those shares YOURSELF. You certainly may borrow those shares from your own IRA, as I posted earlier. See the Income Tax boards and specifically posts by Kaye Thomas Member 4841433 around October 1998 for some discussion on these allowable 60 day loans of stock certificates. DCI shares are not borrowable and not loanable. That's the same for ALL OTC-BB stocks. Even $500 a shares OTC-BB stocks. It is not the price of the shares. It is not the quality of the Company. It is nothing beyond the fact that OTC-BB stocks must, by law, be held in a Type 1 account if held in Street Name. OTC-CC stocks can be sold short (not to be confused with "may be sold short") by obfuscation and lax enforcement of the law by worthless SEC bureaucrats who don't safeguard the public until after the barn door is blown open and the horses have all run out and been sold to the public micro-cap investors. --------------------------------------------- To legally sell short you must DECLARE your position, you must find stock to borrow and you must follow the rules. To become an UNDECLARED short you merely place a sell order (as opposed to placing a "sell short" order). No Uptick rules for undeclared shorts. No need to find borrowable shares for undeclared shorts. No mandatory Fed call liquidations "margin calls" for undeclared shorts. You may say it sounds easy. It is for some people. It is similar to getting money from the bank. Most of us need to establish an account and either withdraw from previously deposited savings or apply and qualify for a secured loan. Other people pull a mask over their face (undeclaring their identity) and just TAKE THE MONEY. Now it is up to you to do even more reading and eventually decide what is the truth and what isn't! Good Luck! Colin