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To: Mika Kukkanen who wrote (19036)	12/2/1998 3:21:00 PM
From: marginmike	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 152472

I ask you were is the first commercial WCDMA system? I havnt heard any announcement's? I only hear about test's. On the other hand Bell Atlantic is already rolling out on upgraded CDMA IS-95 system with many of the CDMA2000 element's. This will happen within 6 month's. We all know that WCDMA cant proceed without Qcom's IPR's. That aint hapening. CDMA2000 will begin rollout within 18 month's. Where is the VW-40? WCDMA is atleast two years from begining rollout, assuming the IPR issue is resolved. Qcom has atleast a 6-12 month lead.

To: Mika Kukkanen who wrote (19036)	12/3/1998 2:45:00 AM
From: freak.monster1	Respond to of 152472

cdma2000 vs. W-CDMA >I would love to know where you got that from. WCDMA has been out >for a very, very long time (demonstratable for at least 3 years now). I know there have been multiple trials of a 5MHz CDMA system by Ericcson and NTT and others. But I am not sure what you mean by "W-CDMA has been out for very very long time". There is as of today no W-CDMA standard. My understanding is that the standardization process is proceeding slowly and the technical details are still changing significantly. While I understand what you are saying, I disagree with the point. >The only thing is that the people backing the various WCDMA proposals >are harmonizing their efforts -which of course will take a little >time. Yes sure that is a fair point. But ETSI and ARIB (japan) W-CDMA proposal are actually very different from each other. It would appear that there is a lot of work to be done here. There is of course the continuing issue of patents, and there has been some more encouraging talk from ETSI about convergence with cdma2000. Did want to make one point: cdma2000 supports both 1XRTT (1x refers to 1.25MHz channel and RTT stands for radio transmission technology) and 3XRTT (5MHz channel). Any convergence is likely only at 3XRTT. In the meanwhile, from the recent CDG press releases, it appears that 1XRTT is proceeding full speed ahead. 1XRTT offers doubling of voice capacity (as well as data capacity), data rates up to 306kbps, much more effecient use of packet switched data protocol, and doubling of phone standby times as its main features - in a backward compatible way with IS-95 - in a 1.25MHz channel. I think Marginmike is probably refering to this - 1XRTT CDMA2000 - as something that will be deployed sooner than W-CDMA, and I would probably agree (but there is standardization work left even with 1XRTT). TIA would most likely make 3XRTT an easily overlaid upgrade from 1XRTT (unless of course there is convergence, then perhaps the new 3X-CDMA standard will be some political mixture of the features of both 3XRTT and W-CDMA (with some luck it will be some technically justifiable mixture, though with european, japanese, Korean and US standards bodies involved, it is probably unlikely. As I think Walt mentioned in another thread on this issue, the performance of 3XRTT CDMA2000 appears (on the basis of a chinese study) to be at least as good as W-CDMA, and generally better in most categories (though as you can imagine this is an incredibly difficult thing to either measure or prove since the systems are optimized differently and neither has seen the cold light of day yet). I would think though that deploying large networks in CDMA is a sobering experience and CDMA2000 folks will be ahead here. >NOTE: UMTS auctions are expected early to mid next year.this is >not a so called 2 to 2.5G solution that has been expressed recently >by BAM. This of course doesn't apply to the US. In Europe for instance it appears that only W-CDMA can be deployed in this band. In fact if you do not propose to deploy W-CDMA, you will not be awarded any UMTS band. This of course is at the heart of US vs. Europe standards issue. I am not sure what is 3G and what is 2.5G. As I have tried to show above (IS-95 to 1XRTT to 3XRTT), for IS-95, there are easy migration paths from 2G to the deployment of operators choice (please, no BS about how this means the system is less effecient because it has to be backward compatible etc). I think at the end the operators ought to be allowed to deploy the system they deem to be the best for their business. Regards.

To: Mika Kukkanen who wrote (19036)	12/4/1998 12:41:00 AM
From: Asterisk	Respond to of 152472

Please excuse me if this has been beaten to death yet but WOAH there nellie!!! I have been participating in this thread for around 2 years and when I got here two things were going on. CDMA was still being vociferously debated by Frezza and Brodsky on a different thread, and this thread had evidently just calmed down after the initial storm. WCDMA was still not even heard of, as a matter of fact I think it has only been a couple months (maybe a little over a year) since WCDMA was first announced. I don't know what your definition of a long long time is but that definately does not meet most normal definitions. Please expand on your comments, maybe I read them incorrectly or out of context or something.