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To: Mr.Fun who wrote (57823)	12/4/1998 9:25:00 AM
From: The Phoenix	Respond to of 61433

Thanks for your perspective. I too have regular access to the analysts, their reports, and deal with the service providers daily...as well as vendors to these providers. My data is different than yours. Be that as it may, we can now agree to disagree. Bottom line is Data Collection 101 will tell you to NOT take data from multiple sources all with different reporting dates and to correlate them into a statement about a given market or segment. BTW: Where do you get the idea that CSCO wants to showcase the ATM switching product line? I think this is an important point and provides some perspective as to your understanding of CSCO's business. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Also, why do you think the only people that purchase ATM switching products are domestic SP's and for that matter SP's period. There are HUGE enterprise networks that purchase more ATM switches then do a large percentage of SP's. Should those be counted as a separate category too? Finally I agree with you on the 3600/2600 products. I applaud Del'Oro's efforts to break out a separate category, after all the products currently in the category are quite different. I'm sure that CSCO wouldn't care since that would make the RAC market look like a declining market. However, given that up to now a separate category did not exist, Cisco had no choice but to report these products as RAC's. So, it seems strange to me that Del'Oro qualifies CSCO's reporting to the RAC market given that Del'Oro does NOT currently have a separate category for "low-end RACs". I think it's a shame that a highly regarded analyst firm would position a weakness in their reporting structure as a problem created by CSCO - it's not, CSCO reported into the category that existed. I talk to 3600 product team almost every week and will ask them about your comment that Csco is "screaming bloody murder" re: this new segmentation. In discussions I had earlier this week the topic didn't come up. Name calling? I think you're getting sensitive. OG

To: Mr.Fun who wrote (57823)	12/4/1998 9:54:00 AM
From: hitesh puri	Respond to of 61433

BLocks being bought again this morning but price has a nice lid on it. -hitesh

To: Mr.Fun who wrote (57823)	12/4/1998 10:01:00 PM
From: joe	Respond to of 61433

Mr. Fun, Enjoyed your posts, and found them very stimulating. Please keep posting!! >>"I can't possibly have any idea as to what was campus based" Excuse me, but have you called the top 50 service providers worldwide and a healthy sprinkling of CLECs to check where Cisco, (and others) is in active deployment? There is something called basic research and it is my full time 70hr a week job.<< If you don't mind my asking, what are you doing with us amateurs? Are you getting anything yourself out of posting on these threads? This is not meant to be disrespectful in the least. I am sincerely interested in your answer? >> As for RAC. The Dell'oro group has been trying to establish and report a separate category for 3600 and 2600 like products. Guess who has been screaming bloody murder. While they are exciting products and Cisco is going great guns, you must admit that the 3600 does not compete directly with either the MAX or the TNT. I believe that the relevant measure for comparisons of market share should be 5200s, 5300s and 5800s. The point is that in this comparison, Cisco is clearly not even #2. Why is it so painful to concede this minor point. I have great faith in the ability of Cisco's management to navigate the carrier market and emerge in a real leadership role, but it does not mean that they are perfect. Just because someone else at Cisco told you a factoid doesn't make it true.<< I follow COMS a lot, and the Dell 'Oro reports really get me shaking my head on this issue. I just have to go by my convictions, keeping studying this more and more carefully, and try to weed out the noise as best I can. Seems there are multiple layers of good and bad information throughout the reports. Since we have so few of them at the disposal for the average person, this is the best we can do. Very fruststrating as you probably know. Do you think reading a lot of the trade journals helps? Such as the Telecommunications Journal and the IEEE Communications articles? My way of thinking, is I try to read anything/everything. Even if 1% of it is useful, it's the best way to go. Time consuming, yes, but what else can the amateur do? Thanks again, joe Thanks, joe