SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Chris land who wrote (23166)12/7/1998 2:54:00 PM
From: mark silvers  Respond to of 39621
 
Chris,

<<To be Jewish and have a gentile wife as the spiritual leader over the household is a very shameful thing for that culture.>>

I was a Jew when I got married, and my wife was Lutheran. We both have our own opinions on many matters, and are ultimately free to express whatever we feel strongly about. Having and expressing an opinion does not make someone either a leader or a follower.

I think it is safe to assume that you don't really have any idea who, if anyone, is a spiritual leader within their household. Within my household, I am not ashamed to say that I have played the role of both leader and follower, choosing whichever I feel is appropriate at the time. My wife is an extremely intelligent, wise, and kind person(as I am sure that Nancy is)and there is much that I can and have learned from her. I am proud to believe that she feels the same about me.

mark



To: Chris land who wrote (23166)12/7/1998 10:21:00 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST  Respond to of 39621
 
Wesley's Sermon
OPIC: Evil Speaking
SUBTOPIC: Cure of
TITLE: The Cure of Evil-speaking

"If thy brother shall sin against thee, go and tell him his fault
between thee and him alone: If he shall hear thee, thou hast gained
thy brother. But if he will not hear, take with thee one or two more,
that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be
established. And if he will not hear them, tell it to the Church. But
if he does not hear the church, let him be to thee as an heathen man
and a publican." Matt. 18:15-17

1. "Speak evil of no man," says the great Apostle: -- As plain a
command as, "Thou shalt do no murder." But who, even among Christians, regards this command? Yea, how few are there that so much as understand it? What is evil-speaking? It is not, as some suppose, the same with lying or slandering. All a man says may be as true as the Bible; and yet the saying of it is evil-speaking. For evil-speaking is neither more nor less than speaking evil of an absent person; relating something evil, which was really done or said by one that is not present when it is related. Suppose, having seen a man drunk, or heard him curse or swear, I tell this when he is absent; it is evil-speaking. In our language this is also, by an extremely proper name, termed backbiting. Nor is there any material difference between this and what we usually style tale-bearing. If the tale be delivered in a soft and quiet manner (perhaps with expressions of good-will to
the person, and of hope that things may not be quite so bad,) then we
call it whispering. But in whatever manner it be done, the thing is
the same; -- the same in substance, if not in circumstance. Still it
is evil-speaking; still this command, "Speak evil of no man," is
trampled under foot; if we relate to another the fault of a third
person, when he is not present to answer for himself.

2. And how extremely common is this sin, among all orders and
degrees of men! How do high and low, rich and poor, wise and foolish,
learned and unlearned, run into it continually! Persons who differ
from each other in all things else, nevertheless agree in this. How
few are there that can testify before God, "I am clear in this matter;
I have always set a watch before my mouth, and kept the door of my
lips!" What conversation do you hear, of any considerable length,
whereof evil-speaking is not one ingredient? and that even among
persons who, in the general, have the fear of God before their eyes,
and do really desire to have a conscience void of offence toward God
and toward man.

3. And the very commonness of this sin makes it difficult to be
avoided. As we are encompassed with it on every side, so, if we are
not deeply sensible of the danger, and continually guarding against
it, we are liable to be carried away by the torrent. In this instance,
almost the whole of mankind is, as it were, in a conspiracy against
us. And their example steals upon us, we know not how; so that we
insensibly slide into the imitation of it. Besides, it is recommended
from within as well as from without. There is scarce any wrong temper
in the mind of man, which may not be occasionally gratified by it, and consequently incline us to it. It gratifies our pride, to relate those faults of others whereof we think ourselves not to be guilty. Anger,resentment, and all unkind tempers, are indulged by speaking against those with whom we are displeased; and, in many cases, by reciting the sins of their neighbors, men indulge their own foolish and hurtful desires.

4. Evil-speaking is the more difficult to be avoided, because it
frequently attacks us in disguise. We speak thus out of a noble,
generous (it is well if we do not say,) holy indignation, against
these vile creatures! We commit sin from mere hatred of sin! We serve
the devil out of pure zeal for God! It is merely in order to punish
the wicked that we run into this wickedness. "So do the passions" (as
one speaks) "all justify themselves," and palm sin upon us under the
veil of holiness!

5. But is there no way to avoid the snare? Unquestionably there is. Our blessed Lord has marked out a plain way for His followers, in the words above recited. None, who warily and steadily walk in this path, will ever fall into evil-speaking. This rule is either an infallible preventive, or a certain cure of it. In the preceding verses, our Lord
had said, "Woe to the world, because of offences," -- unspeakable
misery will arise in the world from this baleful fountain: (Offences
are all things whereby anyone is turned out of, or hindered in, the
ways of God.): "For it must be that offenses come," -- Such is the
nature of things; such the wickedness, folly, and weakness of mankind:
"But woe to that man," -- miserable is that man, "by whom the offense
cometh." "Wherefore if thy hand, thy foot, thine eye, cause thee to
offend," -- if the most dear enjoyment, the most beloved and useful
person, turn thee out of or hinder thee in the way, "pluck it out," --
cut them off, and cast them from thee. But how can we a void giving
offense to some, and being offended at others? Especially, suppose
they are quite in the wrong, and we see it with our own eyes? Our Lord
here teaches us how: He lays down a sure method of avoiding offenses
and evil-speaking together. "If thy brother shall sin against thee, go
and tell him of his fault, between thee and him alone: If he will hear
thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, take
with thee one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses
every word may be established. And if he will not hear them, tell it
to the church: But if he will not hear the Church, let him be to thee
as an heathen man and a publican."

I. 1. First, "If thy brother shall sin against thee, go and tell
him of his fault, between thee and him alone." The most literal way of
following this first rule, where it is practicable, is the best:
Therefore, if thou seest with thine own eyes a brother, a fellow
Christian, commit undeniable sin, or hearest it with thine own ears,
so that it is impossible for thee to doubt the fact, then thy part is
plain: Take the very first opportunity of going to him; and, if thou
canst have access, "tell him of his fault between thee and him alone."
Indeed, great care is to be taken that this is done in a right spirit,
and in a right manner. The success of a reproof greatly depends on the
spirit wherein it is given. Be not, therefore, wanting in earnest
prayer to God, that it may be given in a lowly spirit; with a deep,
piercing conviction, that it is God alone who maketh thee to differ;
and that if any good be done by what is now spoken, God doeth it
himself. Pray that he would guard thy heart, enlighten thy mind, a nd
direct thy tongue to such words as he may please to bless. See that
thou speak in a meek as well as a lowly spirit; for the wrath of man
worketh not the righteousness of God." If he be "overtaken in a
fault," he can no otherwise be restored, than "in the spirit of
meekness." If he opposes the truth, yet he cannot be brought to the
knowledge thereof, but by gentleness. Still speak in a spirit of
tender love, "which many waters cannot quench." If love is not
conquered, it conquers all things. Who can tell the force of love?

Love can bow down the stubborn neck,
The stone to flesh convert;
Soften, and melt, and pierce and break
An adamantine heart.

Confirm, then, your love toward him, and you will thereby "heap coals
of fire upon his head."

2. But see that the manner also wherein you speak be according to
the Gospel of Christ. Avoid everything in look, gesture, word, and
tone of voice, that savors of pride or self-sufficiency. Studiously
avoid everything magisterial or dogmatical, everything that looks like
arrogance or assuming. Beware of the most distant approach to disdain,
overbearing, or contempt. With equal care avoid all appearance of
anger; and though you use great plainness of speech, yet let there be
no reproach, no railing accusation, no token of any warmth but that of
love. Above all, let there be no shadow of hate or ill-will, no
bitterness or sourness of expression; but use the air and language of
sweetness, as well as gentleness, that all may appear to flow from
love in the heart. And yet this sweetness need not hinder your
speaking in the most serious and solemn manner; as far as may be, in
the very words of the oracles of God (for there are none like them,)
and as under the eye of Him who is coming to judge the quick and dead.

3. If you have not an opportunity of speaking to him in person, or
cannot have access, you may do it by a messenger; by a common friend,
in whose prudence, as well as uprightness, you can thoroughly confide.
Such a person, speaking in your name, and in the spirit and manner
above described, may answer the same end, and, in a good degree,
supply your lack of service. Only beware you do not feign the want of
opportunity, in order to shun the cross; neither take it for granted
that you cannot have access, without ever making the trial. Whenever
you can speak in your own person, it is far better. But you should
rather do it by another, than not at all: This way is better than
none.

4. But what, if you can neither speak yourself, nor find such a
messenger as you can confide in? If this is really the case, it then
only remains to write. And there may be some circumstances which make
this the most advisable way of speaking. One of these circumstances
is, when the person with whom we have to do is of so warm and
impetuous a temper as does not easily bear reproof, especially from an
equal or inferior. But it may be so introduced and softened in writing
as to make it far more tolerable. Besides, many will read the very
same words, which they could not bear to hear. It does not give so
violent a shock to their pride, nor so sensibly touch their honor. And
suppose it makes little impression at first, they will, perhaps, give
it a second reading, and, upon farther consideration, lay to heart
what before they disregarded. If you add your name, this is nearly the
same thing as going to him, and speaking in person. And this should
always be done, unless it be rendered improper by some very parti
cular reason.

5. It should be well observed, not only that this is a step which
our Lord absolutely commands us to take, but that he commands us to
take this step first, before we attempt any other. No alternative is
allowed, no choice of anything else: This is the way; walk thou in it.
It is true, he enjoins us, if need require, to take two other steps;
but they are to be taken successively after this step, and neither of
them before it: Much less are we to take any other step, either before
or beside this. To do anything else, or not to do this, is, therefore,
equally inexcusable.

6. Do not think to excuse yourself for taking an entirely different
step, by saying, "Why, I did not speak to anyone, till I was so
burdened that I could not refrain." You was burdened! It was no wonder
you should, unless your conscience was seared; for you was under the
guilt of sin, of disobeying a plain commandment of God! You ought
immediately to have gone, and told "your brother of his fault between
you and him alone." If you did not, how should you be other than
burdened (unless your heart was utterly hardened,) while you was
trampling the command of God under foot, and "hating your brother in
your heart?" And what a way have you found to unburden yourself? God
reproves you for a sin of omission, for not telling your brother of
his fault; and you comfort yourself under His reproof by a sin of
commission, by telling your brother's fault to another person! Ease
bought by sin is a dear purchase! I trust in God, you will have no
ease, but will be burdened so much the more, till you "go to your
brother an d tell him," and no one else.

7. I know but of one exception to this rule: There may be a
peculiar case, wherein it is necessary to accuse the guilty, though
absent, in order to preserve the innocent. For instance: You are
acquainted with the design which a man has against the property or
life of his neighbor. Now, the case may be so circumstanced, that
there is no other way of hindering that design from taking effect, but
the making it known, without delay, to him against whom it is laid. In
this case, therefore, this rule is set aside, as is that of the
Apostle, "Speak evil of no man:" and it is lawful, yea, it is our
bounden duty, to speak evil of an absent person, in order to prevent
his doing evil to others and himself at the same time. But remember,
meanwhile that all evil-speaking is, in its own nature, deadly poison.
Therefore if you are sometimes constrained to use it as a medicine,
yet use it with fear and trembling; seeing it is so dangerous a
medicine, that nothing but absolute necessity can excuse your using it
at all. Acc ordingly, use it as seldom as possible; never but when
there is such a necessity: And even then use as little of it as is
possible; only so much as is necessary for the end proposed. At all
other times, "go and tell him of his fault between thee and him
alone."

II. 1. But what, "if he will not hear?" If he repay evil for good?
If he be enraged rather than convinced? What, if he hear to no
purpose, and go on still in the evil of his way? We must expect this
will frequently be the case; the mildest and tenderest reproof will
have no effect; but the blessing we wished for another will return
into our own bosom. And what are we to do then? Our Lord has given us
a clear and full direction. Then "take with thee one or two more:"
This is the second step. Take one or two whom you know to be of a
loving spirit, lovers of God and of their neighbor. See, likewise,
that they be of a lowly spirit, and "clothed with humility." Let them
also be such as are meek and gentle, patient and longsuffering; not
apt to "return evil for evil, or railing for railing, but contrariwise
blessing." Let them be men of understanding, such as are endued with
wisdom from above; and men unbiased, free from partiality, free from
prejudice of any kind. Care should likewise be taken, that both the pe
rsons and their characters be well known to him: And let those that
are acceptable to him be chosen preferable to any others.

2. Love will dictate the manner wherein they should proceed,
according to the nature of the case. Nor can any one particular manner
be prescribed for all cases. But perhaps, in general, one might
advise, before they enter upon the thing itself, let them mildly and
affectionately declare that they have no anger or prejudice toward
him, and that it is merely from a principle of goodwill that they now
come, or at all concern themselves with his affairs. To make this the
more apparent, they might then calmly attend to your repetition of
your former conversation with him, and to what he said in his own
defense, before they attempted to determine anything. After this they
would be better able to judge in what manner to proceed, "that by the
mouth of two or three witnesses, every word might be established;"
that whatever you have said may have its full force by the additional
weight of their authority.

3. In order to this, may they not, (1.) Briefly repeat what you
spoke, and what he answered? (2.) Enlarge upon, open, and confirm the
reasons which you had given? (3.) Give weight to your reproof, showing
how just, how kind, and how seasonable it was? And, lastly, enforce
the advices and persuasions which you had annexed to it? And these may
likewise hereafter, if need should require, bear witness of what was
spoken.

4. With regard to this, as well as the preceding rule, we may
observe that our Lord gives us no choice, leaves us no alternative,
but expressly commands us to do this, and nothing else in the place of
it. He likewise directs us when to do this; neither sooner nor later;
namely, after we have taken the first, and before we have taken the
third step. It is then only that we are authorized to relate the evil
another has done, to those whom we desire to bear a part with us in
this great instance of brotherly love. But let us have a care how we
relate it to any other person, till both these steps have been taken.
If we neglect to take these, or if we take any others, what wonder if
we are burdened still? For we are sinners against God, and against our
neighbor; and how fairly soever we may color it, yet, if we have any
conscience, our sin will find us out, and bring a burden upon our
soul.

III. 1. That we may be thoroughly instructed in this weighty
affair, our Lord has given us a still farther direction: "If he will
not hear them," then, and not till then, "tell it to the church." This
is the third step. All the question is, how this word, "the church,"
is here to be understood. But the very nature of the thing will
determine this beyond all reasonable doubt. You cannot tell it to the
national Church, the whole body of men termed "the Church of England."
Neither would it answer any Christian end if you could; this,
therefore, is not the meaning of the word. Neither can you tell it to
that whole body of people in England with whom you have a more
immediate connection. Nor, indeed, would this answer any good end: The
word, therefore, is not to be understood thus. It would not answer any
valuable end to tell the faults of every particular member to the
church (if you would so term it,) the congregation or society, united
together in London. It remains that you tell it to the elder or elders
of the church, to those who are overseers of that flock of Christ to
which you both belong, who watch over yours and his soul, "as they
that must give account." And this should be done, if it conveniently
can, in the presence of the person concerned, and, though plainly, yet
with all the tenderness and love which the nature of the thing will
admit. It properly belongs to their office, to determine concerning
the behavior of those under their care, and to rebuke, according to
the demerit of the offense, "with all authority." When, therefore, you
have done this, you have done all which the Word of God, or the law of
love, requireth of you: You are not now partaker of his sin; but if he
perish, his blood is on his own head.

2. Here, also, let it be observed, that this, and no other, is the
third step which we are to take; and that we are to take it in its
order after the other two; not before the second, much less the first,
unless in some very particular circumstance. Indeed, in one case, the
second step may coincide with this: They may be, in a manner, one and
the same. The elder or elders of the church may be so connected with
the offending brother, that they may set aside the necessity, and
supply the place, of the one or two witnesses; so that it may suffice
to tell it to them, after you have told it to your brother, "between
you and him alone."

3. When you have done this, you have delivered your own soul. "If
he will not hear the church," if he persist in his sin, "let him be to
thee as an heathen man and a publican." You are under no obligation to
think of him any more; only when you commend him to God in prayer. You
need not speak of him any more, but leave him to his own Master.
Indeed, you still owe to him, as to all other heathens, earnest,
tender goodwill. You owe him courtesy, and, as occasion offers, all
the offices of humanity. But have no friendship, no familiarity with
him; no other intercourse than with an open Heathen.

4. But if this be the rule by which Christians walk, which is the
land where Christians live? A few you may possibly find scattered up
and down, who make a conscience of observing it. But how very few! How
thinly scattered upon the face of the earth! And where is there any
body of men that universally walk thereby? Can we find them in Europe?
Or, to go no farther, in Great Britain or Ireland? I fear not: I fear
we may search these kingdoms throughout, and yet search in vain. Alas
for the Christian world! Alas for Protestants, for Reformed
Christians! O, "who will rise up with me against the wicked?" "Who
will take God's part" against the evil-speakers? Art thou the man? By
the grace of God, wilt thou be one who art not carried away by the
torrent? Art thou fully determined, God being thy helper, from this
very hour to set a watch, a continual "watch, before thy mouth, and
keep the door of thy lips?" From this hour wilt thou walk by this
rule, "Speaking evil of no man?" If thou seest thy brother do evil, wi
lt thou "tell him of his fault between thee and him alone?"
Afterwards, "take one or two witnesses," and then only "tell it to the
church?" If this be the full purpose of thy heart, then learn one
lesson well, "Hear evil of no man." If there were no hearers, there
would be no speakers, of evil. And is not (according to the vulgar
proverb) the receiver as bad as the thief? If, then, any begin to
speak evil in thy hearing, check him immediately. Refuse to hear the
voice of the charmer, charm he never so sweetly; let him use ever so
soft a manner, so mild an accent, ever so many professions of goodwill
for him whom he is stabbing in the dark, whom he smiteth under the
fifth rib! Resolutely refuse to hear, though the whisperer complain of
being "burdened till he speak." Burdened! thou fool! dost thou travail
with thy cursed secret, as a woman travaileth with child? Go, then,
and be delivered of thy burden in the way the Lord hath ordained!
First, "go and tell thy brother of his fault between thee and him
alone.:" next, "take with thee one or two" common friends, and tell
him in their presence: If neither of these steps take effect, then
"tell it to the church." But, at the peril of thy soul, tell it to no
one else, either before or after, unless in that one exempt case, when
it is absolutely needful to preserve the innocent! Why shouldst thou
burden another as well as thyself, by making him partaker of thy sin?

5. O that all you who bear the reproach of Christ, who are in
derision called Methodists, would set an example to the Christian
world, so called, at least in this one instance! Put ye away
evil-speaking, talebearing, whispering: Let none of them proceed out
of your mouth! See that you "speak evil of no man;" of the absent,
nothing but good. If ye must be distinguished, whether ye will or no,
let this be the distinguishing mark of a Methodist: "He censures no
man behind his back: By this fruit ye may know him." What a blessed
effect of this self-denial should we quickly feel in our hearts! How
would our "peace flow as a river," when we thus "followed peace with
all men!" How would the love of God abound in our own souls, while we
thus confirmed our love to our brethren! And what an effect would it
have on all that were united together in the name of the Lord Jesus!
How would brotherly love continually increase, when this grand
hindrance of it was removed! All the members of Christ's mystical body
would then naturally care for each other. "If one member suffered, all
would suffer with it; if one was honored, all would rejoice with it;"
and everyone would love his brother "with a pure heart fervently." Nor
is this all: But what an effect might this have, even on the wild
unthinking world! How soon would they descry in us, what they could
not find among all the thousands of their brethren, and cry (as Julian the Apostate to his heathen courtiers,) "See how these Christians love one another!" By this chiefly would God convince the world, and prepare them also for His kingdom; as we may easily learn from those remarkable words in our Lord's last, solemn prayer: "I pray for them who will believe in me, that they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me!" [John 17:21] The Lord hasten the time! The Lord enable us thus to love one another, not only "in word and in tongue, but in deed and in truth," even as Christ hath loved us.



To: Chris land who wrote (23166)12/26/1998 8:17:00 AM
From: nihil  Respond to of 39621
 
No, it is simply troubling your neighbor's house. You really ought to mind your own business.