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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (26972)	12/13/1998 10:14:00 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

>I need more proof than someone's word on it, written or not. < Isn't that what the Bible is? Someone's word? Isn't that your only proof for your religion?

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (26972)	12/13/1998 11:49:00 PM
From: Craig Richards	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

All the available data shows that nothing has ever been observed going from disorder to order in this universe. Bob, have you ever heard of 2nd order differential equations? This is part of the mathematics that doesn't lie, right? Well, it turns out that some chemical reactions are governed by 2nd order differential equations that create stable, ordered conditions as long as the variables remain in a certain overall range. Once the chemicals come into contact, they will tend towards an ordered state instead of a disordered state. I read a book about this 7-8 years ago, so I'm somewhat sketchy on the details, but it made a lot of sense to me, and went a long way towards a mathematical explanation of how order could be created from disorder. My recollection is also that the chemicals in DNA follow these 2nd order equations in their interactions. Craig I think the book I'm referring to is Order Out of Chaos: amazon.com

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (26972)	12/14/1998 12:57:00 AM
From: nihil	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

RE: from disorder to order The second law of thermodynamics applies only to closed systems, not to open subsystems. Huge numbers of living organisms, like yourself, are constantly becoming better organized thus locally violating the 2d Law. That is one necessary but not sufficient condition for life. Solar systems collapsing from cold prestellar clouds of gas become better organized (their temperatures are increase) -- they convert potential gravitational energy into heat (and later, in stars, into subatomic forces). One of the strongest scientific arguments against raising the dead is the humpty-dumpty argument in that there is no known way or returning a non-functioning (dead) organism to a prior, more highly organized state. Cells and molecules in dying organisms are subject to thermodynamically irreversible chemical mechanisms. Of course, we may reverse these processes (we have already started with transplants) but this makes organisms into open systems. Oh, by the way, many scientists believe it will take a very long time for matter to disappear. Protons appear to have an infinite half-life. No one has seen one unattacked by other particles disintegrate yet.

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (26972)	12/15/1998 2:06:00 AM
From: Krowbar	Respond to of 108807

<< All the available data shows that nothing has ever been observed going from disorder to order in this universe. It has to be acted on by an outside intelligent force to achieve order from disorder. Order never occurs naturally. >> Where do you get this stuff, from the Watchtowers your local Jehova's Witnesses leave. Snowflakes forming out of the chaos of a cloud is an easy non-life example. Every crystal is highly ordered and condensed out of a disordered liquid. Basic stuff. Happens all of the time. Maybe you need to open your eyes to the world around you. Del