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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: PROLIFE who wrote (23475)	12/24/1998 6:35:00 PM
From: nihil	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

re: Jesus and the soldiers Its pretty clear that the soldiers in the synoptic gospel crucifixion were Roman soldiers, not necessarily Italians, but perhaps Syrians or Greeks. It is likely that they hated all Jews simply because they were Jews (and the Jews returned the complement. Jesus had little affection for Syrians, Greeks, Romans or Samarians and was reluctant for most of his ministry to save them.) But none of these soldiers would have had any interest in fulfilling scriptural prophecy as John had his soldiers doing at the foot of the cross. John has been accused of pushing his part of the new church away from priestly and rabbinical Judaism. I think every thing he says about Jesus must be subjected to scrutiny for his anti-Jewish bias. As to the way soldiers treat prisoners, especially those condemned to death, I agree that one can expect little mercy -- especially when there are ethnic differences. Even a sip of sour wine can be given a dying man in derision. I have been a soldier in charge of prisoners -- thankfully not prisoners condemned to death. I was sickened and disturbed by the obscene brutality toward strangers I observed and could not stop. John must have been seriously deranged by what he saw. Jesus -- who he believed loved him and whom he truly loved and believed to be God was destroyed virtually unresisting before his eyes. The rest of his life was unremitting effort to reconcile these beliefs that both shamed him and terrified him. John, who claimed to be an eye-witness reported only 12 words from Jesus on the cross -- "Woman behold thy son... Behold thy mother... I thirst... It is finished." Matthew copies Mark whose Jesus only says the terrible words from Psalm XXII:1 -- El', El', l'm' s'b'chth'ni -- "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me." Luke has a chattier but off the point Jesus. John refers to the same psalm (XXII:18 -- the dicing scene) but cannot bring himself to mention the desperate words of XXII:1. I tend to believe that Jesus was silent on the cross -- exhausted and already near to death when he was nailed up. All were surprised at his early death. The soldiers kept friends and strangers away. Observers heard what they wanted to hear, or what they ought to have heard. (I know the problem well. I claim to this day to have heard two jests from Albert Einstein that no one else heard -- one to Bertrand Russell, and another to Niels Bohr). Jesus ought to have said something on the cross. History demands it. But we have no way of knowing what it was. The desperate cry is too terrible to believe. The adoption legacy is too self-serving of John. Luke's remarks are ridiculous -- with his friends close, why would Jesus have only spoken to his fellow criminals?

To: PROLIFE who wrote (23475)	12/24/1998 7:54:00 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Respond to of 39621

Gods' promises to redeem Israel, and to set a son of David eternally on the throne David, was fulfilled in Christ Jesus... [Acts 13:16] So Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said: "Men of Israel, and you that fear God, listen. [Acts 13:17] The God of this people Israel chose our fathers and made the people great during their stay in the land of Egypt, and with uplifted arm he led them out of it. [Acts 13:22] And when he had removed him, he raised up David to be their king; of whom he testified and said, 'I have found in David the son of Jesse a man after my heart, who will do all my will.' [Acts 13:23] Of this man's posterity God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus, as he promised. [Acts 13:24] Before his coming John had preached a baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. [Acts 13:25] And as John was finishing his course, he said, 'What do you suppose that I am? I am not he. No, but after me one is coming, the sandals of whose feet I am not worthy to untie.' God has raised up a son of David as the eternal Kingd and Saviour of all mankind. Hellelujah. Emile