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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (27398)	12/29/1998 12:06:00 AM
From: Dayuhan	Respond to of 108807

Bob, where did this universe come from. How did the substance of the universe come into being from nothing. What set the universe in motion and ordered it's physical laws. I don't know. Neither do you. Nobody does. I'm willing to make certain speculations based on scientific evidence accumulated to date. You are willing to make certain speculations based on what is written in an ancient religious text, one of many existing ancient religious texts, none of which agree. All of us inquire, all of us search for truth. But if we want others to accept the results of our inquiries, we have to present compelling evidence that our conclusions are true, as Newton did. Science calls evolution a theory, as the exact mechanism is not yet demonstrable, but there is a huge mass of physical evidence supporting the truth of this theory. There is no physical evidence at all supporting the theory of creation, aside from the account submitted in Genesis. No truth can be accepted as absolute unless it can be demonstrated as such. If an apple fell up even once in all of history, Newton's conclusions would be totally invalidated. You have asked questions, and found answers which satisfy you. Which is good, and nobody disputes your right to believe in those answers. But if you want to declare your answers superior to the answers that anybody else has reached, or if you want others to accept your answers as truth, you'll have to show some tangible evidence. This, of course, you cannot do. Neither can anyone else, from any religion. Which is why we, as individuals and as a state, should tolerate all religions and give institutional support to none. You are perfectly welcome to believe what you want. Declare it the sole truth, and expect people to challenge you. Try to impose it on others, and expect to be restrained, as you should be, for violating their freedom of belief. Steve

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (27398)	12/29/1998 1:56:00 AM
From: Krowbar	Respond to of 108807

Are you aware of the fact that a vacuum, in it's strictest definition, cannot exist? Whenever scientists try to achieve a total vacuum in a given volume, particles appear from nothing. Nature abhors a vacuum. Nothingness cannot exist! Del

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (27398)	12/29/1998 3:08:00 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

#1- how did the substance of the universe come into being from nothing? Free conversion between matter and energy :Albert Einstein- the universe started as an energetic place and now has become a place full of mass. Last year scientists created matter from the convergence of laser beams- they created mass where only energy existed before. While this was theoretically possible it was not demonstrated until this experiment because it takes so much energy to create measurable mass. So there was never "nothing" according to theory- energy existed (if you have to have a creator for energy, then in my opinion you have to have a creator for the creator- or an endless daisy chain of ever bigger and better Gods- might as well just stop with energy). Even vacuums now are speculated to have energy content. #2 What set the universe in motion and ordered its physical laws? The laws of thermodynamics. But of course these are only theories. They are elegant, they fit the facts- but my immortal soul (if I believed I had a soul) is not in danger if they turn out to be incorrect. >When someone finds a truth it is not just for them. Truth applies to all, I guess that's what makes it true. An example in physics could be Sir Isaac Newton and his theories about gravity. < BTW- Newton's theories are mere approximations to explain time/space and are not a "truth". They are simply models of behavior-like evolution. Newton's thoeries break down at scales outside of our ordinary experience- either at the very big or the very small so they are in no way "true". You need to read up a bit on the sciences before you try to use scientific arguments to support your beliefs. I recommend you read Kierkegaard- a philosopher who struggled with logic and faith and decided finally that you could not "prove" it- you had to merely take a leap of faith. You took this leap after a deep and intense personal struggle. Of course going down that road is dangerous for it can lead to existensialism- because who knows where your inner struggle will lead you? And when a man looks to the inside for truth, when all our insides are so very different, you never know what truth a man will come up with. It is not the least like looking for scientific proofs- it is more like looking for a painting you would like to look at on your wall for the rest of your life. You pick up one philosophy and perhaps it is too gloomy, you pick a religion, but perhaps it does not suit you, and finally you find something that fits you like a second skin. It appeals to your mind. It seems to fit your thoughts. It gives you comfort and peace- did you think only your truth could do that? Lots of people have found truth- all kinds of truth, and it IS personal truth and there may not be ONLY ONE(you see I am not absolute- I allow that there might be only one- whereas you say there MUST be only one). But if there is a creator, and if he has a sense of humor, when you get to wherever we are going he'll let you think you got there without the rest of us.