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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Grainne who wrote (27537)1/2/1999 12:59:00 PM
From: Sam Ferguson  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
Christine I have waited patiently for Bob to answer the true name of Jesus and his prrof, knowing all the time he wouldn't couldn't answer.

Since no one else will answer I will give you facts to consider:

The personal existence of Jesus as Jehoshua Ben-Pandira can be established beyond a doubt. One
account affirms that, according to a genuine Jewish tradition "that man (who is not to be named) was
a disciple of Jehoshua Ben-Perachia." It also says, "He was born in the fourth year of the reign of the
Jewish King Alexander Jannæus, notwithstanding the assertions of his followers that he was born in
the reign of Herod." That would be more than a century earlier than the date of birth assigned to the
Jesus of the Gospels! But it can be further shown that Jehoshua Ben-Pandira may have been born
considerably earlier even than the year 102 B.C., although the point is not of much consequence here.
Jehoshua, son of Perachia, was a president of the Sanhedrin--the fifth, reckoning from Ezra as the
first: one of those who in the line of descent received and transmitted the oral law, as it was said,
direct from Sinai. There could not be two of that name. This Ben-Perachia had begun to teach as a
Rabbi in the year 154 B.C. We may therefore reckon that he was not born later than 180-170 B.C.,
and that it could hardly be later than 100 B.C. when he went down into Egypt with his pupil. For it is
related that he fled there in consequence of a persecution of the Rabbis, feasibly conjectured to refer
to the civil war in which the Pharisees revolted against King Alexander Jannæus, and consequently
about 105 B.C. If we put the age of his pupil, Jehoshua Ben-Pandira, at fifteen years, that will give us
an approximate date, extracted without pressure, which shows that Jehoshua Ben-Pandira may have
been born about the year 120 B.C. But twenty years are a matter of little moment here.

According to the Babylonian Gemara to the Mishna of Tract "Shabbath," this Jehoshua, the son of
Pandira and Stada, was stoned to death as a wizard, in the city of Lud, or Lydda, and afterwards
crucified by being hanged on a tree, on the eve of the Passover. This is the manner of death assigned
to Jesus in the Book of Acts. The Gemara says there exists a tradition that on the rest-day before the
Sabbath they crucified Jehoshua, on the rest-day of the Passah (the day before the Passover). The
year of his death, however, is not given in that account; but there are reasons for thinking it could not
have been much earlier nor later than B.C. 70, because this Jewish King Jannæus reigned from the
year 106 to 79 B.C. He was succeeded in the government by his widow Salomè, whom the Greeks
called Alexandra, and who reigned for some nine years. Now the traditions, especially of the first
"Toledoth Jehoshua," relate that the Queen of Jannæus, and the mother of Hyrcanus, who must
therefore be Salomè,

2

in spite of her being called by another name, showed favour to Jehoshua and his teaching; that she
was a witness of his wonderful works and powers of healing, and tried to save him from the hands of
his sacerdotal enemies, because he was related to her; but that during her reign, which ended in the
year 71 B.C., he was put to death. The Jewish writers and Rabbis with whom I have talked always
deny the identity of the Talmudic Jehoshua and the Jesus of the Gospels. "This," observes Rabbi
Jechiels, "which has been related to Jehoshua Ben-Perachia and his pupil, contains no reference
whatever to him whom the Christians honour as God!" Another Rabbi, Salman Zevi, produced ten
reasons for concluding that the Jehoshua of the Talmud was not he who was afterwards called Jesus
of Nazareth. Jesus of Nazareth (and of the Canonical Gospels) was unknown to Justus, to the Jew
of Celsus, and to Josephus, the supposed reference to him by the latter being an undoubted forgery.

The "blasphemous writings of the Jews about Jesus," as Justin Martyr calls them, always refer to
Jehoshua Ben-Pandira, and not to the Jesus of the Gospels. It is Ben-Pandira they mean when they
say they have another and a truer account of the birth and life, the wonder-working and death of
Jehoshua or Jesus. This repudiation is perfectly honest and soundly based. The only Jesus known to
the Jews was Jehoshua Ben-Pandira, who had learnt the arts of magic in Egypt, and who was put to
death by them as a sorcerer. This was likewise the only Jesus known to Celsus, the writer of the
"True Logos," a work which the Christians managed to get rid of bodily, with so many other of the
anti-Christian evidences.

Celsus observes that he was not a pure Word, not a true Logos, but a man who had learned the arts
of sorcery in Egypt. So, in the Clementines, it is in the character of Ben-Pandira that Jesus is said to
rise again as the magician. But here is the conclusive fact: The Jews know nothing of Jesus, the Christ
of the Gospels, as an historical character; and when the Christians of the fourth century trace his
pedigree, by the hand of Epiphanius, they are forced to derive their Jesus from Pandira! Epiphanius
gives the genealogy of the Canonical Jesus in this wise:--

Jacob, called Pandira, Mary=Joseph--Cleopas, Jesus.

This proves that in the fourth century the pedigree of Jesus was traced to Pandira, the father of that
Jehoshua who was the pupil of Ben-Perachia, and who becomes one of the magicians in Egypt, and
who was crucified as a magician on the eve of the Passover by the Jews, in the time of Queen
Alexandra, who had ceased to reign in the year 70 B.C.--the Jesus, therefore, who lived and died
more than a century too soon.



To: Grainne who wrote (27537)1/3/1999 2:20:00 AM
From: Krowbar  Respond to of 108807
 
Christine, Despite the convoluted explanation that Sam gave as to the birth name of Jesus, I have learned that a new fragment of the Dead Sea Scrolls has been found that reveals the truth. It seems that as one of the three wise men was rising from leaning over the infant in the manger he rapped his head on one of the supporting beams. "Jesus Christ!" he exclaimed. "That's a terrific name", said Mary. "I was going to name him Wilbur."

Del