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Pastimes : Don't Ask Rambi -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Thomas C. White who wrote (16510)1/15/1999 7:20:00 PM
From: Rambi  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 71178
 
I'm so glad you asked that question, my dear Thomas. Of course the reason you asked it, transparent to me, is not because you are more comfortable with the idea of appearing ignorant, but because you wanted to call attention to the fact that I used what appeared to be a rather redundant and probably oxymoronic phrase and you were so excited about pointing it out you couldn't wait to call everyone's attention to it and embarrass me. HOWEVER, in your customary haste to humiliate, you failed once again to consider the incredible breadth and depth of my knowledge, my awesome ability to recall arcane and useless scraps of grammatical trivia, and my amazing talent for mythomania or bullshit.
So, for your puerile edification, and I do hope it causes you a moment of dysphoria, I will elucidate:
"In and of itself" is a phrasal collocation, an idiomatic construction peculiar to English, that has been accepted by its usage even though it may appear grammatically illogical. These idioms provide charm and versatility to our language; they are little idiosyncrasies that delight by their rhythmic, euphonious presence in our sentences.
I do hope this little post has proved enlightening for you. It is neither here nor there, but I do enjoy bestowing on you odds and ends from my treasure trove of trivia. Such generosity is just part and parcel of my oh so pleasing and philonoistic personality package.



To: Thomas C. White who wrote (16510)1/16/1999 12:57:00 AM
From: Jacques Chitte  Respond to of 71178
 
I am a little surprised that Penni has so egregiously punted this opportunity to enlighten - and has instead chosen to publicly bathe in uncharacteristic contrition.
"In and of itself" does seem at first glance to be redundant. This is however a symptom of a deeper lingual shallowness (sic) which has gripped this great land of ours. I will presume upon this forum to remedy in my own small way this instance of semantic, yea semiotic stagnation.
The phrase in question derives from the Latin in et de se ipso, which presumably comes from the Greek. We can't be sure, because they <emphatic participle> torched Alexandria, and the Arabic stewards of the scattered remnants of this great pool of knowledge were ill-equipped to preserve this subtle yet powerful phrase. Y'see, their un-Western grammar did not support this duality.
In itself and Of itself are used to denote two different qualities. The first phrase - in itself is a bookkeeper's thing, an objective assignment of category, of rubric. It speaks to the engineer among us. It assigns the highlighted object, event or property (the thing that is "in and of itself") its epistemological place. Furthermore, this place is definite and complete.
Of itself, on the other hand, is a brush dipped in a more ethereal pigment. It is an affirmation of ontological sufficiency. This part of the phrase invokes the poet/philosopher within us. The thing "of itself" has enough Aristotelian substance to sustain itself without being an accident to or a shadow of a more real thing. It contains within it the foundation, or a significant part of the foundation, of its own being. By no means as self-referent and self-defining as Augustine's Deity, but still - you can speak the word or phrase without requiring an externally, expressly assigned context and it brings the force to conjure meaning. Not to put too fine a point on it - a declaration of self.
Okay then: "In and of itself" suggests that the referred object, event or property combines two separate and yet interlocking concepts. Roughly: definition and independent substance. It is this power that makes English such a fine canvas for rational thought: the thoroughly modern, sophisticated agility of idea to communicate a duality-which-really-isn't-dual-at-all, without the need to abandon clarity or even resort to ambiguity. Can't have taht.