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Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (29552)	1/24/1999 4:46:00 PM
From: Daniel Schuh	Respond to of 67261

Oh my gosh, Rev. Pilch. A pound of pus dumped on somebody else.

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (29552)	1/24/1999 5:54:00 PM
From: miraje	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 67261

Long post. I'll attempt to give an honest response. since from my vantage point you have been unreasonable in just this one instance, Perhaps substituting the word "sexuality" for "morality" in my original sentence would have made it closer to the truth. an analysis of the illogic I have submitted in these forums. I don't consider your posts to be illogical. Do you? I do consider them to be a source of amusement at times. They arrive at their positions by reason, having to the best of their abilities examined the various premises that form the basis of their beliefs and found them each sound. The premises upon which they depend are based, to the greatest extent possible, upon philosophical soundness; Excellent! Precisely the approach I take in trying to formulate a coherent, non-contradictory philosophy of life. They hold to their positions as a matter of principle, and refuse to compromise them because of convenience, changing them only after finding them in some way truly deficient. Excellent, again! Although I would apply it only to serious core principles. Compromise is not only expedient, but smart in certain instances. I may determine one or more of their foundational premises to be philosophically contrary to my liberty and/or existence, and believe they aim to force these premises upon me. Self annihilation is a concept I consider quite illogical, I agree 100%. A very libertarian concept. I'd be interested to know what foundational premises you consider to be threatening to your liberty and/or existence. I think that's where we may differ. Do you consider consensual sex of any sort between adults as threatening to your liberty? And if so, how? I can understand how you may view certain acts as morally repugnant, but that's an entirely different matter. While one may reject my God and the tenets that I believe flow from Him, one is not by such rejection compelled to reject what I believe are the foundational principles of civilized human relations-- principles such as honor and integrity. True. But I do believe it's a major mistake to assume that morality and ethics must be based in religious doctrine. The principles you note above, along with honesty and basic decency (we may disagree on the definition of that), exist as positive human attributes in and of themselves. I am an athiest/agnostic (depending on how you define the terms) and have and live by a definite moral code that's based on common sense and reason, not dogma. Some of them believe, as I do, that it is of utmost importance that a man be ever faithful to his wife and children; and that when a man fails here, he is not a man to be much trusted. Unless a couple mutually agrees to a sexually open marriage. I have no problem with any lifestyle arrangement as long as it doesn't involve deceit. And that includes homosexual marriages, too. I don't see how you or anyone else can view that as threatening to your freedom or liberty. There are many other issues that are genuinely eroding our freedoms. I could never have even the most fundamental trust in men who do not abhor the behaviour of Bill Clinton and who do not think his incessant lying enough to reject him as their leader I don't like Clinton or hate Clinton. I just find it sad that the real worthwhile goals of the GOP are probably going to go down the tube as a result of this stupid impeachment debacle JB