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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: O'Hara who wrote (29391)	1/30/1999 2:28:00 PM
From: Edwarda	Respond to of 108807

I am a woman and I do not object! I find far more objectionable some of the ad hominem attacks that I have read here than anything in nihil's post. Although I do not agree with a number of his beliefs, I find many of nihil's postings thought provoking and interesting. He does not strike me as being "really low down" and I assure you that I have a good deal of sensitivity.

To: O'Hara who wrote (29391)	1/30/1999 2:50:00 PM
From: Father Terrence	Respond to of 108807

KNOW THIS SHALOM...DO NOT SPEAK FOR CHRISTINE. I am bloody well shocked! Does that shock you? No? It should, because the word bloody is considered quite vulgar to the upper-class British. What if I called you a "green pig"? Would you take vehement offense? No? To a Frenchman, that is quite an insult. In fact an emotional, murderous bent Frenchman might even attempt to gut me if we were in an argument at a bar and I called him that. The point is language is arguably the greatest tool invented by Man. No deity constructed our languages for us. All words (including some words in various societies that some people take offense to) were created by Man. Many of the Anglo-Saxon words that christians take offense to have to do with body parts, bodily elimination of waste products, or with sexual intercourse. This notion that certain words are to be condemned, or are "evil" in some way is patent nonsense. Do you even know the origin of some of these words? Many were coined long after the old testament or new testament were written. For instance, "screw" and "nail" were slang terms invented by British sailors in the South Seas when they discovered that Polynesian women would give them sexual favors in return for a piece of metal from the ship, even a screw or a nail. The most famous word has several origins attached to it. Perhaps the strongest argument is that the origin of this word simply started out as an acronym for a crime in Medieval England: "Fornication and Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" was the charge, which later became known simply as fuck. Father Terrence

To: O'Hara who wrote (29391)	1/30/1999 4:38:00 PM
From: Sidney Reilly	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

shalom, Yes, he's one sick puppy. The soul that thirsts for righteousness will be satisfied. We have that to look forward to. Bob

To: O'Hara who wrote (29391)	1/30/1999 5:08:00 PM
From: Grainne	Respond to of 108807

Shalom, actually Nihil's message does not offend me. I think FUCK is a fine old English word, full of color and vibrance and verve. It is very expressive! I don't use it all the time, because I want to set a good example of ladylike behavior for my daughter. If she chooses to use this word when she is an adult, I am sure that she will use it discreetly and appropriately, following my example. I also don't think it is acceptable to use profanity at work, and I am at work quite a bit of the time, so that limits my use of it as well. However, there are times when it is the best word to use!! I am basically a person who resists rules and limits, and I am quite sure no deity will strike me dead simply for having a colorful vocabulary. I think we need to discriminate between TRUE OBSCENITY, like when homosexuals are wounded and murdered because of the climate of hatred that the Christian right fosters in America, and my harmless use of that word. For the record, I also agree with Nihil about not turning his friend in for trying to sodomize him. Fifteen-year-old children do all sorts of sexually inappropriate things. Obviously, no real violence was involved, and he was not harmed. The friendship was lost, and I am sure his friend learned from his mistake. The fact that he ended up married to a woman and became a surgeon, if I understand all the posts correctly, pretty well indicate that Nihil made the right decision. If he had been turned into the Georgia penal system, I am sure he himself would have been raped repeatedly and beaten, and would probably have been so permanently damaged that he would still be in prison for something. This is very different from being sexually accosted by an adult stranger, which should always be reported. I suspect there is homophobia getting in the way of some of you seeing this clearly! Sex play among teenagers is extremely common, including homosexual sex play. It is the same way with monkeys, apes, and other mammalian species. Normal, natural, and no big deal, in other words.

To: O'Hara who wrote (29391)	1/30/1999 8:08:00 PM
From: E	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 108807

Shalom, I read FT's reply to your objection to the language in nihil's post, and want to say that I agree with FT completely. Nihil's post (I've given the link to it below) was hurtful to no one, unless there is someone reading this thread who has a very tenuous hold on their sexual feelings, and who is alarmed when they are aroused, which they are unusually easily, and who finds even such lighthearted used of sexual references threatening to their peace of mind. With these thoughts in mind, I clicked on your profile, and was struck by the cartoon image illustrating Investment Style-- the man whose eyes follow the angel and devil, who perpetually vie for his attention-- and by the words that accompany the image, "Submit ourselves to God. Resist the devil and he will flee." It may be that because I had already thought, "This shalom is certainly hyper-reactive to a little harmless sexual imagery used jokingly, what's his problem?," that your "Resist the devil and he will flee" struck me as so perfectly a confirmation of my impression that you react to what is no more than humorous earthy language as though it were Satan working to arouse your barely- controlled lusts. Message 7561214 This message, a contribution to a very informal conversational exchange, aroused no one and shocked no one and appeared as the devil to no one but you, is my guess. At least I fervently hope this is the case. [Edit: I just clicked on and found that in fact, surprise! Bob feels as you do, and looks forward, so frankly, to your and his sweet revenge: "The soul that thirsts for righteousness will be satisfied. We have that to look forward to." I'm so sorry, guys. The righteousness is ours, and it is here. Those words, used amusingly by nihil, are good ones. It is you who respond to them so intensely who are possessed by a sort of Satan.]

To: O'Hara who wrote (29391)	1/30/1999 8:26:00 PM
From: nihil	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Well, the poll is in and I accept the results. The two people I respect and FT (on whom I still on the edge) find me acceptable, and the two lace-pantied twits continue to object. that's good enough for me. I at least have left0 tokens of my friendship and my enmity everywhere. Who are Shalom and Bob anyway? They talk like smiley-face flowers, but I hardly think they'd glory in the name of "pansy." I think I deserve a vote, and that makes it 4/2, enough to change the by-laws under Robert's Rules newly revised. I really do have a problem though. I was not raised in an English-speaking home -- we spoke Anglo-Saxon or Old English exclusively. For us the word f*** was derived from fokken an old Frisian-Dutch word which simply meant to strike or hit. Amazingly, we said "fokken good" and "fokken bad", or "fok you, motherfoker" just like I learned in the marine corps -- defender of our First Amendment liberties. I was probably the only boy whose language was improved by 8 years in the marines. My brother came back from the war and at the big dinner welcoming him, he asked my younger brother to "pass the fok- pass the butter please!" My sister, sitting across the table, said "almost fokked up didn't you?" When I went to a proper school where the teachers were disgusted by my language I tried to learn a better brand of chatter. I found most of the words I used were not even in the dictionary -- Merrian-Websters, OED, all of the big ones. What the fok could fuck mean when it wasn't even in the fokken dictionary? I finally found the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (1969) -- a fokken good dictionary, and it answered most of my problems. "Cunt" was there from cunte, (Middle Low German (for sure)), as was blowjob, prick, fellatio and other good stuff. As usual, Bob only spreads his fishy smell around, while Shalom appoints himself God and gives commands like a King of Judeah gone mad (a common condition as I remember). Shalom cannot even spell my nom de poste and yet feels qualified to prescribe "serious counseling" instead, I suppose, of the comic kind he hands out. All I can say to these guys, is you've bescitanned yourselves. Get your fykken butts outa here, and let us sophisticates enjoy some high-toned but earthy conversation.