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Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (31377)	2/1/1999 1:00:00 AM
From: alan w	Respond to of 67261

Excellent post, Johannes. I had to do the same thing some months back. It is very easy to fall into the attack/ugly mode. It only hurts your ability to reason with people. God Bless you alan w

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (31377)	2/1/1999 1:18:00 AM
From: greenspirit	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

Bravo Johannes! It's much more fun to debate without calling people names and such anyway. The flaws in critical thinking speak much clearer than any names ever will. :-) Nice to see you had the honesty to post an apology. Too bad we won't see the same admission from the President or Democratic hypocrites in Congress. :-) It still amazes me that someone like Barbara Boxer could be so shocked and outraged over Bob Packwood's behavior, then support the Presidents's. Actually, I guess it doesn't amaze me, what amazes me is the inability for apparently intelligent people to not see the flaw in critical thinking. I see tonight the "Ken Starr is out of control" media spin is making the rounds. Let's see...gee I wonder where this rumor started?? :-) The way the major media is manipulated by the White House spin machine is really laughable. How they can look in the mirror and call themselves journalists is pathetic at best. Where is the source for the story? Next time you hear the top of the news listen carefully. "There is a report circulating that Kenneth Starr is considering indicting the President, and feels he has that power." Where has the story come from? Who started it? Why do all the media have it at the exact same time?? And why is this the lead item hour after hour? And they have the gall to be outraged over Matt Drudge! How ridiculous. Michael

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (31377)	2/1/1999 3:51:00 AM
From: JBL	Respond to of 67261

Good for you Johannes. I don't know how this happened, but this is a really positive transformation...

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (31377)	2/1/1999 11:39:00 PM
From: pezz	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

Johannes,although you have never been un kind to me I was still glad to see this post. It took strength of character to admit past failings and I believe you will find debate without acrimony to be much more satisfying. I suspect you will sleep better tonight. pez

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (31377)	2/3/1999 10:05:00 PM
From: jbe	Respond to of 67261

Congratulations, Johannes...Although I was not mentioned in your list, I was the target of some of your slings and arrows in the past. But I have to admit that those slings and arrows may have been provoked by unkindness on my part. For that, I apologize to you, just as you have been generous enough to apologize to others. Thank you for setting the example. jbe

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (31377)	2/4/1999 1:37:00 AM
From: Borzou Daragahi	Respond to of 67261

Wow. That required some guts. Apology accepted. And I have to say I respect anyone willing to subject themselves to such vigorous (and public) self-examination. I also apologize for any harsh rhetoric I may have used in criticizing your views. We all could benefit from acknowledging that human beings are far more fragile than most of us believe. Hope your ankle feels better. Kind regards, Borzou

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (31377)	2/4/1999 12:59:00 PM
From: N	Respond to of 67261

Johannes, loud sustained applause and admiration for your statement. You have now made it easier for everyone to follow your courageous way. This is not easy to do...but you have now given us all the gift of making so much easier our own self reflection and the sharing of it with others. I thank you. I see my own cynicism is a great disappointment in the tone of civil debate today, expecially in the U.S. context. There is so much to be addressed by a civil society in the U.S. And the present national dialogue so confounds.... Apropos, to honor you, I looked up these passages in Thomas Merton, a catholic priest who was quite active in the war movement of the sixties and many social issues. Not formally religious, I increasingly find Merton outlines such a wonderful and profound ethic with which one could truly live and allow others the same grace. The Root of War is Fear.....Thomas Merton ....In our refusal to accept the partially good intentions of others and work with them (of course prudently and with resignation to the inevitable imperfection of the result) we are unconsciously proclaiming our own malice, our own intolerance, our own lack of realism, our own ethical and political quackery.(my emphasis). Perhaps in the end the first real step toward peace would be a realistic acceptance of the fact that our political ideals are perhaps to a great extent illusions and fictions to which we cling out of motives that are not always perfectly honest: that because of this we prevent ourselves from seeing any good or any practicality in the political ideals of our enemies -- which may, of course, be in many ways even more illusory and dishonest than our own. We will never get anywhere unless we can accept the fact that politics is an inextricable tangle of good and evil motives which, perhaps, the evil predominate but one must continue to hope doggegly in what little good can still be found. ....It is not only our hatred of others that is dangerous but also and above all our hatred of ourselves: particularly that hatred of ourselves that is too deep and too powerful to be consciously faced. For it is this which makes us see our own evil in others and unable to see it in ourselves. ....So instead of loving what you think is peace, love other men and love God above all. And instead of hating the people you think are warmakers, hate the appetites and the disorder in your own soul, which are the causes of war. If you love peace, then hate injustice, hate tyranny, hate greed --- but hate these things in yourself, not in the other. I just realize after writing this out, that my disappointment/dislike of the the current political climate of cynicism, manipulation and the world of the quick, the quick dismissive social one-liner -- like, later, yeah right, duh, excuse me -- is something in myself to examine. I need personally to move beyond my own disappointment in the recent American political discourse and reexamine my own ideals. Merton is great! It all starts with each one of us taking personal responsibility. And you have done so grandly. Sincerely and with good wishes for you, Nancy Hammond