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To: Michael Latas who wrote (3168)	2/9/1999 9:59:00 AM
From: fred whitridge	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 8393

Michael Latas-- Nice post on LiPoly. I think new comers and thread regulars alike should keep looking at different chemistries. I know I do. Please note the following additions: LiPoly and LiOn zealots have got to acknowledge the manufacturing risks and factor those into their thinking about market penetration and the acceptance of those chemistries. How would you like to be the property, fire, and casualty underwriter for each of Sony, Valence, and Ultralife all of whom have had major fires at their manufacturing facilities? Buying Lithium batteries may get to be a lot like buying new private aircraft-- they work but over 1/2 the cost is current and future insurance premiums. Even if one buys the notion that a polymer electrolyte is safer in operation, the manufacturers must still handle lithium in dessication rooms. A battery chum once referred to lithium battery experimenters as "war lords": they were deep in the dungeons of the building in bomb proof rooms. Second, what about cost. All of these Lithium chemistries are way more expensive than NiMh. Let us not forget net vs. gross cost, and net energy density vs. gross energy density, with the difference in each case being due to the need for redundant charge control systems. The 10 cell LION (traitor!) battery I just replaced for my laptop cost $240. Even allowing for a 75% margin along the way to my desk, this is still $6 per cell, or around 4-5x what NiMh might cost (not available as an option on my laptop). And I most assuredly did not get 500 cycles. Third, despite what these mfgs say, the safety issues ARE NOT RESOLVED to everyones satisfaction. Why are the FAA and the NTSB concerned about shipping (let alone using) Lithium batteries by air if they are so dang safe? Why are the computer mfgs lobbying the airlines NOT to put in flight recharging facilities in place if they are so dang safe? Note that my first and third points are about safety in manufacturing vs. safety in use. LION manufacturing involves highly flammable solvents. LION and LiPoly both inovlve handling the explosive lithium at some point. The third point was getting at safety in use. Apparently these manaufacturers haven't yet convinced some very important folks.

To: Michael Latas who wrote (3168)	2/11/1999 8:32:00 AM
From: Ray	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 8393

Does anyone know what battery Kodak was using? Tech Center February 11, 1999 Kodak Recalls 120,000 Adapters For Some of Its Digital Cameras By a WALL STREET JOURNAL Staff Reporter ROCHESTER, N.Y. -- Eastman Kodak Co. is recalling 120,000 electrical adapters for some of its digital cameras after batteries in at least one device exploded, causing minor injuries to a user. Two other buyers reported that their cameras overheated and that the batteries ruptured. Kodak said it hasn't been sued and was acting voluntarily to protect consumers and its brand. The recall is the largest in Kodak's history, and its first since the early 1970s. The adapters were sold in the U.S., Europe and Japan and allow users to use their cameras by plugging into a wall outlet instead of relying on batteries. The recall cost of about $3 million is minor, but analysts called it an embarrassment for a company that is in the midst of a high-profile advertising campaign to get consumers to buy its filmless digital products, which are an important part of its growth strategy. Kodak, cooperating with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, said it stopped selling the $40 to $80 adapters in August 1998, but that they may still be in some stores. The adapter was used in Kodak's DC25, DC40, DC50 and DC120 digital cameras; most of those models have been replaced on retail shelves by newer models. Elpac Electronics Inc., a closely held Irvine, Calif., company which makes the adapter for Kodak, said the flaw was in the camera-adapter interface, and not with the adapter itself. Kodak hasn't asked Elpac to contribute to the recall cost. Elpac will continue making adapters for Kodak.

To: Michael Latas who wrote (3168)	2/28/1999 8:46:00 PM
From: Michael Latas	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 8393

I have just returned from Thailand and Vietnam. All I can say is, if ever a market existed for electric scooters, bikes and cycles, it's in these markets. I don't know which country has more. There are literally zillions of them. You would not believe your eyes. The population of Thailand is 60 million. And contrary to what the American public has been falsely led to believe, they do not ride regular bicycles. To the contrary, they all have motorized two wheelers. About the only exception are young kids or a few older folk. Period. This applies to both Bangkok (est. population 14 million)and Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon), est. population 5 million. Vietnam has an est. population of 78 million. This applies as well to rural areas. Bangkok streets and highways are your worst possible nightmare for traffic jams. Pollution is so unbelievable you can cut it with a knife. You would have to take Chicago and Detroit together to equal the expanse of this city. Very highly modern and progressive. Skyscrapers abound everywhere. It's difficult to grasp that their economy is in trouble. With the tons of autos, trucks and busses, this market is ideal for EV's and HEV's. You would also be amazed at the great number of Mercedes', in addition to other luxury autos. You would not think this of a developing third world country. Vietnam is no where near as modern, progressive, Americanized, or crowded as Bangkok. Their motorcycles and scooters outnumber their autos by perhaps a hundred or more to one. Pollution is not nearly as severe as Bangkok, but still a problem. However, to put things into proper perspective, Vietnam geographically is the size of the state of New Mexico, but contains 78 million people. The country overall is crowded and growing. It was certainly not my intent to "show and tell" about my trip, but to share what I observed as a very large hot market for ECD's products. Both countries are aware of their environmental problems and are going to have to do something about it. NiMH scooters, motorcycles and bikes are scheduled to finally be marketed this year. Perhaps both countries will be included. We shall see. I can't hardly imagine how anything can prevent this from occurring. Regards.