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Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (33724)	2/11/1999 9:15:00 PM
From: Johannes Pilch	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

>Johannes, the problem with Quayle making an issue out of this Murphy Brown character is that he himself represents a less than ideal leader to so many people.... it would be a huge farce if he wasnt serious.< I see. Admittedly I do not know Quayle well. Surely I know of some of his public speaking fumbles, but I hardly think it reasonable to judge the man on this basis. He is perhaps a very smart man, a very loyal, caring husband and father who simply is not very good before cameras. In any event, it seems reasonable to me to analyze the essentials of Quayle's message apart from his person. >For example, lets say hypothetically I am a single parent, which is not completely ideal. What do I have over Quayle? Well, for one thing, Im a lot smarter than he is. Sure, his kids were raised in a 2 parent household, but it was a dumb household, and who knows what kind of torture his kids had to endure being the sons of Mr. Potatoe-head. So hes not ideal either. Who is a better parent between the two of us?< Firstly, we know as fact none of the things you have said above. Secondly, this is not the issue. The issue concerns Quayle's essential contention that single parenthood should not be held forward as a laudable institution, a general preference over dual parenthood. In MB's circumstance, there ostensibly were no comparisons between her abilities to raise a child verses some specific persons. The show apparently lauded single parenthood philosophically -- as a laudable national institution. >This Murphy Brown situation is particularly annoying because that show was designed after a real person (Linda Ellerbee) who in my mind is a monument to society compared to Quayle. Of course Quayle was in the National Guard.... so that counts for something.... nah, Ellerbee is still better.< Perhaps, but again, in MB's circumstance, there ostensibly were no comparisons between her abilities to raise a child verses some specific persons. In other words, we were not forced to choose the better of two undesirables. The show apparently lauded single parenthood philosophically -- as a laudable national institution in and of itself. This is what Quayle lobbied against, and I think he is right. >I think the best thing is just not to embrace this moral policing.< Well now I do not think it a matter of moral policing. Firstly, Quayle simply placed his opinion in the marketplace of ideas. We are free to accept or reject them. I think they merit my attention, you apparently do not think they merit yours. This is fine. No moral policing here at all. Secondly, the matter becomes very important when we consider the larger effects of single parenthood on society. It seems reasonable to me that a female who has always known the love of a father, a real dad who always has been available to her, is preferable as a wife over one who has never really known such love. Perhaps such a thing matters not at all to some people, but it does matter to others. Those for whom it matters should have a say on this issue, as well as anyone else. In any event, their speaking publicly about it amounts to not a shred of moral policing.

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (33724)	2/11/1999 10:57:00 PM
From: Bearcatbob	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

When this all started I said the Dems could have Slick if they wanted to keep him. He is their boy. I hope they enjoy his lies with pride and joy. Yes we could have been spared the last year and delt with national issues - the bum should have resigned and done the only dignified thing of his life. House Counsel Lashes Out at Senate By Deb Riechmann Associated Press Writer Thursday, February 11, 1999; 7:32 p.m. EST WASHINGTON (AP) -- Grudgingly resigned to President Clinton's acquittal, the lawyer who directed the House impeachment inquiry called the president's trial a ''sham'' and said Thursday that House prosecutors ''were cut off at the knees'' by the Senate. ''I feel there was no fair trial. There was no constitutional trial in the Senate. I think that the constitutional system has been irrevocably harmed,'' David Schippers said in an interview on the eve of a vote that senators in both parties agree will acquit the president of perjury and obstruction of justice. Schippers, the GOP investigative counsel for the House Judiciary Committee when it staged the impeachment inquiry, said the 13 Republican lawmakers who prosecuted the case ''did everything we could with the minimal tools they allowed us to use.'' He criticized senators for settling for videotaped testimony instead of allowing witnesses to testify live. ''They refused to let us prove our case,'' he said. The former federal prosecutor, a hardened veteran of organized crimes cases, was selected by the House Judiciary Committee chairman, Rep. Henry Hyde, R-Ill., to investigate whether Clinton's efforts to conceal an extramarital affair amounted to impeachabale offenses. Though a Democrat from Chicago, Schippers quickly became a lightning rod for criticism by Democratic defenders of the president. He recently was the subject of a supermarket tabloid report that suggested he had an extramarital affair. Asked about the report, Schippers would not comment except: ''That's garbage. It's a nonissue.'' Now that he's leaving town, he's holding back none of his opinions. ''I can say things that maybe some of those congressmen won't say because I'm going to be out of here,'' he said. ''But I have to say what I believe.'' He criticized senators who announced they would vote to acquit the president because they didn't believe House proved its case. ''It's a sham. The whole trial was a sham,'' he said. ''I felt that the managers were cut off at the knees.'' The Senate never wanted to hold the trial, he said. ''From the day they presented the impeachment articles to the Senate,'' Schippers said, ''it seemed like the whole attitude of the senators was 'We don't want to be bothered. We don't want to be annoyed.''' © Copyright 1999 The Associated Pr

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (33724)	2/12/1999 8:48:00 AM
From: jlallen	Respond to of 67261

As usual, you have no idea how intelligent or not intelligent Quayle is but you make a judgment based upon what you've seen on TV. Now your household may not have been dumb, but it did not keep you from turning out that way. JLA

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (33724)	2/12/1999 9:36:00 AM
From: Les H	Respond to of 67261

Quayle's making an issue out of Murphy Brown was no different that Al Gore's making an issue out of the V-chip, Tipper Gore's making an issue out of Heavy Metal lyrics, and Bill Clinton's making an issue out of that black rapper. They were all looking for what they thought to be safe targets to make brownie points with their constituents. In the case of Clinton's comments on the rapper, he was trying to appeal to the right and centrists by using the "morality" issue. As far as people being ideal or not, I've yet to find the former. As far as which can offer more useful guidance, I would prefer someone who's made mistakes.

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (33724)	2/21/1999 4:07:00 AM
From: Dan B.	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

Michelle, Linda Ellerbee was part of the best Network news show that ever was. IMHO. I knew I disagreed with her opinions more often than not, yet the extended clips shown on that program always gave fair coverage to both sides of issues. And laugh!- God I loved that woman. She was a great wit. Just GREAT! When that show left the air prematurely, it was a very,very sad day in my life(too much Late Night T.V.?). The problem with Clinton remaining President is that HE "represents a less than ideal leader to so many people..." It IS a huge farce that he IS President and SERIOUS abut staying on though essentially(not legally) he admits he Lied to all of us. While his job approval is high, some 84% of us believe he is guilty of both crimes as charged...hey, those are the numbers. As I say, less than ideal. Such numbers will prove to mean a lot, too. I don't give a hoot about Quayle and Murphy Brown. By the by, there does exist a Dictionary in which the word potato is spelled "potatoe" hundreds of times throughout. :-) Which fact I just love to point out.