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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Rick Julian who wrote (31085)	2/17/1999 10:23:00 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Well, first of all, for those of you who cannot quite believe it, the article did actually appear in the San Francisco Chronicle recently. Here is the link: sfgate.com Karma, it seems like one of the threads running through this discussion is that you and a couple of others really do believe homosexuality is a lifestyle, something that people adopt when they really have the choice between that and heterosexuality. However, if you look at all the studies of this issue, there is overwhelming evidence that homosexuals sense from an early age that they are different. Why would anyone make a rational choice to be gay, when that choice subjects them to AIDS, hate crimes, everyday ridicule and rejection, and takes away from them the right to make a legal commitment to someone they love? I find that very illogical, at best. <<My obeservation of the gay pride movement of the last 15 years is that gayness and bisexuality have become almost fashionable, with many impressionable, and immature young people who would otherwise have not considered it, "taking it out for a ride" because it has an outre hipness. I am concerned such experimentation can produce lifelong sexual identity confusion that can be dangerous, and can further contribute to the instability of the family--at least until the day that bisexuality is an aknowledged norm. I won't stand being cast into the Bigot Bin (not that you have) because of this kind of thinking. I think it is a legitimate argument that is terribly unPC.>> In regard to your statement above, are you aware that there was plenty of bisexual experimentation in the late sixties and early 70's in the rock and roll world? In fact, in my opinion, people like Mick Jagger and David Bowie and their crowd flaunted bisexuality much more so than anyone has since. And did you consider that sexual experimentation with both sexes during the teenage years has always been rampant, among humans and other mammals? The only difference I see in the last fifteen or so years is that in places like Hollywood, it is slightly less threatening to live openly. I certainly don't see a rash of conversions to the gay lifestyle! I live in San Francisco, and even here there is an enormous number of hate crimes against homosexual and bisexual teenagers, plus everyday harassment. It is less here, I would imagine, than in other parts of the country, but one of the results of widespread American homophobia is that many extremely disturbed young homosexuals, some of whom are forcibly ejected from their families, end up here. The rates of suicide and drug abuse in this group is astronomical, because they are in so much psychic pain. I also think that partially explains the article in the Chronicle as well. For a number of years, there has been a subset of people in homosexual life here who have "survivors' guilt". In the Castro in the 1980's, half the population was infected with AIDS and dying, slow or fast. Men without AIDS typically lost thirty or forty friends, one funeral after the next, and became so depressed that some of them just stopped caring whether they got the virus or not. In fact, having it became a relief of sorts, because once you were HIV positive, you no longer had to practice "safe sex." It is really easy to be smug and look down upon this group, but I feel more compassionate when I remember that it is also very difficult for heterosexuals to practice safe sex each and every time. When you add huge quantities of drugs and alcohol, and the underlying lack of self esteem that many of these men feel, it is not hard to understand why some of them consciously or subconsciously court this virus. At least then some of the anxiety after each sexual encounter is gone. Although your words are subtle, you seem to have sort of bought into the idea that it is dangerous to normalize homosexual behavior, especially when you mention the campaign in the schools. The reason for this public health effort is NOT to recruit young homosexuals, but simply to start an understanding at an early age that there is a variety of human experience, and that Heather with her two mommies does not deserve to be ridiculed on the playground, and that young homosexuals do not deserve to be taunted and crucified on fence posts and the like. While you resist the idea of being cast in the Bigot Bin, you are certainly expressing many of the same idea that bigots do, and seem to have very little real understanding of homosexuality.

To: Rick Julian who wrote (31085)	2/17/1999 10:44:00 PM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

gayness and bisexuality have become almost fashionable, with many impressionable, and immature young people who would otherwise have not considered it, "taking it out for a ride" because it has an outre hipness. I am concerned such experimentation can produce lifelong sexual identity confusion that can be dangerous, and can further contribute to the instability of the family I would be very surprised to encounter any young person who was "trying out" gayness because it was hip. The positive noise from the gay community is a tiny fraction of the peer pressure in the opposite direction. I also think that an awful lot more "sexual identity confusion" is caused by forcing gay young people into a heterosexual mold than the other way around. I think that gayness is a bit bizarre; I mean, face it, it certainly goes against the biological point. But if people are that way, they are that way. If you punsih people for being what they are, sooner or later they will get together and fight back. Reality, like it or not. Makes a lot more sense to just deal with them as people than to punish them some more, or come on with some simpering attempt to "cure" them.